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Xaser
 
 
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Post by Xaser »

The only problem with Skulltag is that few people are playing it at the same time. I just got on, and there were no players. That sucks, because I feel in a DM kind of mood today.
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PlzDieKthx
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Post by PlzDieKthx »

Xaser wrote:The only problem with Skulltag is that few people are playing it at the same time. I just got on, and there were no players. That sucks, because I feel in a DM kind of mood today.
Try IRC or FNFs then
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Death Mage
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Post by Death Mage »

Well, I'm quite late in responding here. I don't check these boards very often, because there aren't enough updated for me to keep hounding the boards. Another Strife screeny, in-game. I can't wait for that sucker to be fully playable. >:)

Anyway, my quick takes on issues discusses so far:
Patchware: Blame the deadlines, no the testers or programmers. Every time a company declairs the software must be released by x date PERIOD, there are going to be bugs. The best "bug-free" software (which is never bug free) are the ones that get released "when they're done". Deadlines kill.

Valve/Counter-Strike connection: The biggest reason I think for Valve to be so gung ho about Counter-Strike, not just because CS is the most popular FPS game (even as just a mod) PERIOD (Statistics had more people playing CS than every other FPS on-line combined, by a long shot, especially back during the beta days when CLQ was active), but because Valve started as mod makers. The team made Team Fortress for Quake 1, and then later went on to make Half-Life. Maybe they just remember their roots, and want to encourage other mod-makers, especially those that made a game as popular as Counter-Stirke. Of course, I'm not going to deny that they see dollar signs, but there might be some noble goals there.

Counter-strike (Half-Life) vs True Combat (Quake 3): IMHO, Half-Life has better net-code than Quake 3. Quake 3 still used archaic server-side timing, meaning more lag = harder to actually hit something. You have to lead, you can't just aim. Half-Life corrected this many years ago by going client side with their aiming. If you hit something on your screen, you actually hit it, even if lag would have made your shot miss. This is something that is still a problem with FPS games today. This is one of the reasons why I still play Counter-Strike as opposed to all the other mods and games out there. Half-Life is simply a "better" engine on many aspects (although graphically isn't one anymore). It still has the best positional audio I've heard, and being able to hit what I aim at is a huge bonus. It has it's flaws, everything does, but it has enough advantages to keep me playing.

Old School vs MLOOK: Quake 1 came out in 1996. Non-MLOOK died then. Where's the challenge of having the computer aim up and down for you? Yea, it was good for DooM when you couldn't actually aim for yourself, but it's really time the players grew up and let at least that aspect seep into their precious game on-line. What is the bloody point of using a new engine if you're not going to actually USE the new engine?

Blizzard: War Craft 1 and especially War Craft 2 were poorly balanced, but had little real competetion. That is the only reason why they were as popular. Their games are rarely special. They add "new features" YEARS behind everybody else.. yet still manage to make it look good. Their games are fun, but I can't put my finger on many and say "now THIS is a revolutinary/timeless game because...". Except Star Craft. That one was a RTS game that remains one of the best RTS games in existance (although Zerg rush could have been toned down slightly.....)

All MMORPGs suck. Period.
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arioch
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Post by arioch »

Death Mage wrote:Half-Life corrected this many years ago by going client side with their aiming. If you hit something on your screen, you actually hit it, even if lag would have made your shot miss.
Hello aimbot.
Blizzard: War Craft 1 and especially War Craft 2 were poorly balanced, but had little real competetion. That is the only reason why they were as popular. Their games are rarely special.
Yeah, that's about all I needed to hear. Moron.
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Kate
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Post by Kate »

Xaser wrote:The only problem with Skulltag is that few people are playing it at the same time. I just got on, and there were no players. That sucks, because I feel in a DM kind of mood today.
Yea I noticed you joined my server.. I was a bit sidetracked though when you joined, so I couldn't play, though I'm usually looking through the servers 90% of the time so if you join another server(or even the same one) I'm usually going to be the first to follow. And as PlzDie suggested there's always IRC ([url=irc://irc.oftc.net/skulltag/]#skulltag[/url])... I'm on most of the time. Unless it's around 4AM...
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

A better solution to the lag problem is Quake 3's Unlagged. This mod, which can easily be incorporated into any existing mod, keeps track of each player's ping and adjusts the aiming and timing of hitscan weapons accordingly. The side-effect of this is that occassionally you will round a corner, get shot by an HPB, keep running, and then suddenly find yourself dead 10 feet back because he actually shot (and hit) you, but it took a few seconds for the message to reach the server and for the server to compensate for lag. And of course the upside is that that HPB, with his 300+ ping, was able to aim at you, shoot at you, and kill you, even if the kill was a bit delayed. Compare that to having to lead your target and having the LPBs having a clear advantage just because of their connection. This cannot be used to create aimbots since all calculations are done server-side.

Arioch: I'm not quite sure what issue you have with Death Mage, but he's stating his opinions and backing them up, while you're calling him names because he doesn't agree with you. I'm not impressed.
All MMORPGs suck. Period.
And why do you say that? While I agree that 95% of MMORPGs, which consist of levelling up characters endlessly and without reason (they're more or less a chatroom with a game thrown in for fun), again I point out that DAOC is built entirely around player-vs-player combat, and as such does it better than any Massively Multiplayer game to date. You can get together with a force of 100+ players, storm a keep, build siege engines, punch holes in the enemy keep's walls, rush in, wipe out the enemies helping defend (and that dirty bastard manning the boiling oil. Grr! :evil:), take out the guards defending the keep lord, and finally the lord himself to claim the keep for your own realm. You can then have a guild of your realm take possession of the keep, customize what type of guards will help defend the keep and how they should accomplish that task, upgrade the keep's doors and walls using superior materials to help defend against an assault, etc, etc, etc. If that's not enough, you can also engage in ship-to-ship or ship-to-keep battles to help conquer the enemy. And all of this translates to benefits that help your entire realm in the long run. (More coin drops, more experience, more damage, etc) It's quite fun and very unlike any other MMORPG I've ever seen.
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Graf Zahl
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Post by Graf Zahl »

HotWax wrote: Arioch: I'm not quite sure what issue you have with Death Mage, but he's stating his opinions and backing them up, while you're calling him names because he doesn't agree with you. I'm not impressed.

Look who's talking... :(
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Death Mage
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Post by Death Mage »

Ok, admitingly I've not played DAOC, but the entire format to me is pointless. ok, so you've just captured a palace. give it a couple days (or weeks, whatveer), and it'll be gone again. Then you get together and conquer it back. Then you lose it, then you conquer it back, then..

Why do MMORPGs suck? Endless cycle. You go out to kill monsters to buy better equipment to kill bigger monsters to buy better equipment... Standard RPGs have a story to them. And while it's true that most MMORPG's do have some sort of story, but there's no goal, no end game. And I have better things to waste my pointless life on than another pointless life.
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Lexus Alyus
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Post by Lexus Alyus »

I must admit, he has got an incredibly good point there :D.

Graf: Maybe Hotwax has said stuff like that in the past, but i like to beleive that people can improve and better themselves :). I was actually expecting a flame from HW but I was most releived to not get one :).

I generally like games wsith stories that can imerse you... I can definately see theappeal of MMORGs, but it is trying to be a replacement for life, and few pepople actrually play it like that. Technology can get so good, you might be able to see the world from your entire living room... but then after that people will create realistic lives like this and we'll alkl become massive blobs that live a perfect world inside a computer... That's an intresting idea :D.

:twisted:
Demigod
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Post by Demigod »

Death Mage wrote: Old School vs MLOOK: Quake 1 came out in 1996. Non-MLOOK died then. Where's the challenge of having the computer aim up and down for you? Yea, it was good for DooM when you couldn't actually aim for yourself, but it's really time the players grew up and let at least that aspect seep into their precious game on-line. What is the bloody point of using a new engine if you're not going to actually USE the new engine?
Quake also had mlooking as a toggle key,so it didn't die then for me :wink:

I prefer always mlook off and autoaim on.The reason why is because is just dosn't feel right in doom.I think I can safely say mostly all the good dm players use this method.It is far more effective.And most of the popular dm maps don't have awhole lotta vertical differencial.But it really dosn't matter thats my preference.And your right players should grow up.They should relise it dosn't matter which method other players use,since you can toggle the mlooking an aiming on and off.And also zdoom does a lot more than just those things so I feel that I am still making use of the engine.I'm not trying to flame you.It's just that was a silly thing to say.And it's a rather old topic that's been around just as long as the actual feature:

http://www.doomworld.com/mellow/dosdoom.htm

Me personally, I don't give a crap how people setup their controls and what not.It doesn't affect me.
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

Death Mage wrote:Ok, admitingly I've not played DAOC, but the entire format to me is pointless. ok, so you've just captured a palace. give it a couple days (or weeks, whatveer), and it'll be gone again. Then you get together and conquer it back. Then you lose it, then you conquer it back, then..
Fair enough, but you can say that about any multiplayer game out there. Why kill somebody in Doom when they're just going to respawn and you'll have to kill them again? Even if you win, you'll just start over at 0 frags in the next game, so what's the point?

The point of any game is to have fun playing it, and you'll just have to trust me when I say it's damn fun going out there and sieging castles and towers and then defending them against enemy forces. The fact that the forts constantly change hands is what keeps things fun -- if you took over all the enemy territory, there'd be nothing left to do.
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Death Mage
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Post by Death Mage »

Ah, but there is a difference there. With most multi-player games, everybody starts on a level playing field at the beginning of every map. The only thing that seperates player A from playe rB is their own personal skill. With MMORPGs, there is levels, different equipment, etc. etc. With most MP games, you start at 0 every time. And the goal is simply to beat wo you are playing directly against. It's similiar to any sport in that aspect.

But with MMORPGs, the "goal" there is to level up, become more powerful, build a life, whaever. It doesn't have the same "sport" setup to it.
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HotWax
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Post by HotWax »

So in football, everyone starts out with an equal body build and talent?

Didn't think so. :)

Yeah, MMORPGs allow you to create and customize characters -- that's what makes them more fun. In most multiplayer games, "character customization" means you can select a different model or team color. In DAOC, you have 39 (Yes, 39) distinct classes which can each be specialized a different way, and one of 15 races to choose from. Building up your character to be effective in Realm vs Realm combat is possibly the most important aspect of the game.

People need to get over the "MMORPGs are wanna-be RPGs" stigma. That's not true at all, even if it was true at one time. Yes, the world has some background story to it, but there's not one over-arching storyline and that's not what the designers are shooting for. Instead, they're designing a world for your character to come from and live in. How you choose to play the character once he's created is entirely up to you.
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cccp_leha
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Post by cccp_leha »

Fuck 'em all, side-scrolers ar teh best! :P
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Lexus Alyus
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Post by Lexus Alyus »

No, fuck em all, ZDooM is teh best ;).

:rock:
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