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by **wildweasel** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:37 pm

FishyClockwork wrote:I'm not sure how often Quasar frequents these forums (if he ever frequents them), since I haven't seen any posts made by him.
Would he notice if I sent a PM, or do I have to make an account on doomworld?

Would probably be wiser to contact him on Doomworld.

by **Fishytza** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:55 pm

Gez wrote:How much of the modified behavior is hardcoded, and how much is performed by changes to the map's dialog scripts?

I don't think the modified dialogue scripts do anything special aside from the new NPC in Factory: Forge who gives you a new token which opens tag 225.

The Governor-dead-end change is not because of changes to SCRIPT02, but rather it's modified behavior of the alarm token (ZDoom's "RaiseAlarm" actor). If it detects you're on MAP02 and talking to the governor (it checks his thing type) and the "classic mode" setting isn't set, then the new behavior happens, otherwise the alarm sounds off.

Gez wrote:the best bet would be simply to contact Quasar and ask him about it.

I'm not sure how often Quasar frequents these forums (if he ever frequents them), since I haven't seen any posts made by him.
Would he notice if I sent a PM, or do I have to make an account on doomworld?

by **Gez** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:52 pm

FishyClockwork wrote:Bit of a dumb question, but I need to get this off my chest.

How much am I allowed to emulate/reverse-engineer (with ACS) SVE specific behavior?
For example, would something like when you steal the chalice, the Governor puts you back in the interrogation room and spawns more acolytes around the town be off-limits?

Aside from not wanting a lawsuit on my ass, I would hate having to do a lot of work only to scrap it later because it's a big no-no

How much of the modified behavior is hardcoded, and how much is performed by changes to the map's dialog scripts? If you look at SVE.wad you'll see the entire maps are in there.

For any level behavior change that is hardcoded in the engine, the best bet would be simply to contact Quasar and ask him about it. As long as you contact him first I don't think he'll object to ZDoom getting the game logic needed to play SVE maps as they are intended. I'm not even sure ZDoom would actually need to borrow code directly, but I haven't looked at the game logic differences between Choco Strife and SVE.

by **Fishytza** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:01 am

Bit of a dumb question, but I need to get this off my chest.

How much am I allowed to emulate/reverse-engineer (with ACS) SVE specific behavior?
For example, would something like when you steal the chalice, the Governor puts you back in the interrogation room and spawns more acolytes around the town be off-limits?

Aside from not wanting a lawsuit on my ass, I would hate having to do a lot of work only to scrap it later because it's a big no-no

by **Fishytza** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:51 am

edward850 wrote:FishyClockwork seemed to be suggesting just taking the SVE PWAD and modifying it, rather than making a patch or extension for it

O_o
Either I need to word my sentences differently or... well I don't understand how you got that idea from:

FishyClockwork wrote:long ago I made some sort of "SVE support PK3" which allows running SVE.wad (as a pwad) without many issues.

The "support PK3" (which is just code) is supposed to be run alongside SVE.wad, with STRIFE1.wad being the iwad, of course.

If you got confused by this:

Also, I don't think the demo maps work as intended either.

By that I mean you don't hear the NPCs' voices (eg. Harris) when talking to them.
And Blackbird's radio chatter is played wrong, eg. when coming out of the tavern after confronting Harris you hear the same speech that you get when Rowan gives you the comm link in the full game.

by **edward850** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:07 pm

Blzut3 wrote:Nothing's wrong with it, Edward850 apparently felt like being an oracle. Yes you can share a patch that enables SVE.WAD to work with ZDoom. Either a shim for users to load into existing ZDoom or submitting patches to get mainline support (I don't believe the latter is what was being asked).

Even though it's out of the scope of what was being asked, what Edward850 was trying to say is no, one can't take code directly from SVE and stick it into ZDoom without getting approval from Kaiser/Quasar (they're pretty cool about licensing if it comes down to fairly trivial bits). At the same time one does need to take care that the implementation given is accurate.

Both of these statements had nothing to do with what I was talking about, as FishyClockwork seemed to be suggesting just taking the SVE PWAD and modifying it, rather than making a patch or extension for it. You know, the usual "Don't upload a modified Doom2 IWAD" rule.

by **Graf Zahl** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:36 pm

Xaser wrote:I'm confused as to why one can't add support that requires "-file SVE.wad" to function (a la NERVE.WAD). In mainline (G)ZDoom's case it may be a "devs don't want to," but it sounds like that's what FishyClockwork is doing in PWAD form. What's the issue?

What's unclear about 'I do not have it'? Meaning I can't verify anything about it and I do not plan to rebuy a game I already own.

by **Fishytza** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:42 pm

Hmm. Since I'm not sure if what I'm doing is a-okay or on the more dark side of gray, would a hacky combination of DECORATE and ACS, which accurately mimics the behavior of the original code, count as copying it?

Say, for instance, the ore spawner which is never supposed to spawn any ore if there are already 3 ores on the map or if it's a deathmatch game or if the ore spawner is 2048 units away from all players.

wildweasel wrote:I seem to recall there are some instances of outright conflict, i.e. data lumps with entirely different formats sharing names with ZDoom-specific ones.

IIRC there is a lump in SVE.wad which used to be named DECALDEF but later got renamed to DECLDEF. Because of that, ZDoom used to give a fatal error when trying to load SVE.wad.

EDIT: Basically what Blzut3 said. *got ninja'd* -_-

Right, now a more meaningful question. Should I upload this in Projects? Since the current PK3 is rather small (6kb).
On second thought, nevermind.

by **Blzut3** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:39 pm

Nothing's wrong with it, Edward850 apparently felt like being an oracle. Yes you can share a patch that enables SVE.WAD to work with ZDoom. Either a shim for users to load into existing ZDoom or submitting patches to get mainline support (I don't believe the latter is what was being asked).

Even though it's out of the scope of what was being asked, what Edward850 was trying to say is no, one can't take code directly from SVE and stick it into ZDoom without getting approval from Kaiser/Quasar (they're pretty cool about licensing if it comes down to fairly trivial bits). At the same time one does need to take care that the implementation given is accurate.

The DECALDEF thing was resolved IIRC and even then it not like it would have been a huge issue to ignore or even support (the syntax is fairly similar to ZDoom's but Kaiser couldn't be bothered to make it compatible).

by **Xaser** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:38 pm

As a quick clarification to my previous post: I'm not referring to copying code from SVE; that indeed can't be done because of licensing.

by **wildweasel** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:27 pm

I seem to recall there are some instances of outright conflict, i.e. data lumps with entirely different formats sharing names with ZDoom-specific ones.

by **Xaser** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:24 pm

I'm confused as to why one can't add support that requires "-file SVE.wad" to function (a la NERVE.WAD). In mainline (G)ZDoom's case it may be a "devs don't want to," but it sounds like that's what FishyClockwork is doing in PWAD form. What's the issue?

by **Fishytza** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:16 am

edward850 wrote:Although it's also mostly irrelevant to ZDoom, which really can't afford to have anything less than proper support.

Right, so unless I finish everything else I shouldn't even bother posting it at all.

by **edward850** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:53 am

If it's not the same data, it's irrelevant, however the important thing there is that as long as someone can't use it to play SVE without actually having/loading SVE, it's fine.

Although it's also mostly irrelevant to ZDoom, which really can't afford to have anything less than proper support.

I don't think Strife could actually handle any more kludges without becoming some sort of singularity and devouring us all.

by **Fishytza** » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:39 am

Even if it's just reverse engineered code, IE nothing but DECORATE, ACS and MAPINFO?

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