by Gez » Sun May 10, 2009 9:24 am
HotWax wrote:Wait, I thought we kept features in because that's the way it was done originally. Now we're selectively dropping features because we "like the new way better"?
It's not a feature, it's a minor behavioral trait.
Here's an example of an actual feature, which has been kept from Doom despite not being in Heretic. Or
a better example of a feature from Strife which has been purposefully removed from ZDoom.
Raven had also every ability to correct the bug that prevents Maulotaurs to spawn flames if they're standing in lava (footclip bug) or myriad other things. They simply overlooked that part. Remember they worked from the Doom 1.2 codebase, which did not have the Hell Knight yet so the concept of family had not been introduced in the code they worked with. They were too busy adding new features (like a more 3Dish treatment of levels where you can pass above or below enemies and obstacles, the inventory system, etc.) to bother rewriting small and not-easily noticed changes between Doom and Doom 2. It's not like it's a hugely important issue anyway -- we're in 2009, Heretic support has been in ZDoom for what, nine years without anybody remarking on it earlier?
In my opinion, if you put a pack of golems with a golem leader, what should happen is not a mutiny where the melee-only golems kill their leader. They have the same sprites, the same sounds, the same speed and animation rate; until they attack there is no way to distinguish between a leader and a normal. So it is counter-intuitive to have the same event (getting a fireball to hit an enemy) provoke different outcomes based on elements that are not apparent in the game.
My bottom line is this: as things are now, it is better, more logical, more consistent, more intuitive, and more likely to be taken into account when mapping -- whether it stays as is or not -- than the alternative.
It is especially important for ZDoom project where plenty of additional monsters can be added. Remember the reasons why infighting was removed entirely from KDiZD? They are good and valid reasons, even if I didn't like it. Having families of monsters allows to have a nice diversity while still keeping an easily controllable number of "antagonizable" groups, so that infighting can be kept on rather than removed entirely.
Perfect emulation, if you want that, Fraggle is working on Chocolate Heretic. For ZDoom, this is better, so if it is "fixed" it should be with a compat option to keep the better behavior in if so we want.
[quote="HotWax"]Wait, I thought we kept features in because that's the way it was done originally. Now we're selectively dropping features because we "like the new way better"?[/quote]
It's not a feature, it's a minor behavioral trait. [url=http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21144]Here's an example of an actual feature[/url], which has been kept from Doom despite not being in Heretic. Or [url=http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21128]a better example[/url] of a feature from Strife which has been purposefully removed from ZDoom.
Raven had also every ability to correct the bug that prevents Maulotaurs to spawn flames if they're standing in lava (footclip bug) or myriad other things. They simply overlooked that part. Remember they worked from the Doom 1.2 codebase, which did not have the Hell Knight yet so the concept of family had not been introduced in the code they worked with. They were too busy adding new features (like a more 3Dish treatment of levels where you can pass above or below enemies and obstacles, the inventory system, etc.) to bother rewriting small and not-easily noticed changes between Doom and Doom 2. It's not like it's a hugely important issue anyway -- we're in 2009, Heretic support has been in ZDoom for what, nine years without anybody remarking on it earlier?
In my opinion, if you put a pack of golems with a golem leader, what should happen is not a mutiny where the melee-only golems kill their leader. They have the same sprites, the same sounds, the same speed and animation rate; until they attack there is no way to distinguish between a leader and a normal. So it is counter-intuitive to have the same event (getting a fireball to hit an enemy) provoke different outcomes based on elements that are not apparent in the game.
My bottom line is this: as things are now, it is better, more logical, more consistent, more intuitive, and more likely to be taken into account when mapping -- whether it stays as is or not -- than the alternative.
It is especially important for ZDoom project where plenty of additional monsters can be added. Remember the reasons why infighting was removed entirely from KDiZD? They are good and valid reasons, even if I didn't like it. Having families of monsters allows to have a nice diversity while still keeping an easily controllable number of "antagonizable" groups, so that infighting can be kept on rather than removed entirely.
Perfect emulation, if you want that, Fraggle is working on Chocolate Heretic. For ZDoom, this is better, so if it is "fixed" it should be with a compat option to keep the better behavior in if so we want.