by Biff » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:37 am
Dear Hotwax,
Your exaggerations are quite inappropriate to a reasonable examination of this issue. The tactic of stretching things to the extreme to make them seem unreasonable is counterproductive to reaching understanding.
I'm simply saying that I, and most others, took Nash's post to be in the "razzing" category. Where do you come up with such an exaggeration as "pure hatred for his very being"?
About "pinning responsibility for everyone else on you", let's get past that, as that is not the core issue. The core issue is that I personally, and probably some others here, am finding your behavior objectionable, occasionally. It is quite clear that you will not yet make an effort to consider that you might be out of line at some point.
Look, this particular thread is not such a big deal. For me, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back and I finally snapped at you. This was the fourth time that I have been motivated to ask you to back off for the sake of forum peace since the forum software was changed and the prior three times made no impression on you whatsoever. Let me remind you, you'll remember...
1. Soon after the new software, after RL joined, you tossed a direct insult at him without provocation, apparently trying to bait him into an argument. I noted "Hey, that's a 'cheap shot', why are you doing that?" You did not answer I think.
2. Some time later, you did it again, out of the blue writing some childish insults to RL when he wasn't even talking to you. At that time I again noted, "Another cheap shot. Will you please take that sort of thing to private email instead of laying these turds in our forum space?" Your reply was to laugh it off with, "Hey, I paid good money for those shots!"
It's bizarre to me to hear you say how "RL likes to attack me" as if you really believe that you are just innocently cavorting in your forum playground and big, bad RL comes after you.
3. More recently there was some issue in a thread where I saw you as significantly dragging down the tone and quality of discussion with your mean-spirited and unnecessary taunts. I called you on it. You threw up a smokescreen of exaggeration and pointing in other directions, seemingly incapable of any self examination.
4. Now this thread. In itself it seems somewhat trivial but it's the big picture I'm trying to address here.
Don't go to exaggerations again. No one is calling you generally "evil" or "all bad" or any such thing. What I am saying is that the vast majority of forum members know how to keep conversation civil and productive without resorting to flames and name calling. We all can make a "mistake" once in a while. It's your pattern of increasing this behavior (you, not everyone else, I'm talking to you about you) that I'm asking you to reconsider.
Hotwax, your reply is predictable. You and I are not going to come to the slightest agreement here if that agreement includes you saying, "OK, I'll try to think twice before hurling the insults".
So, I propose that we end the discussion by agreeing to what happens the next time anyone on the forums, you and I included, makes a comment that someone finds offensive enough to protest. Don't exaggerate, I don't mean every little trivial taunt between people who often post back and forth, I mean something that someone is willling to say they think is "over the line". It will be rare.
We'll simply put it to a vote if the concern rises to that level. Forum members will be asked to vote: "Is this particular example "over the line" of what you want to allow in these forums?" If the majority answer is "yes" then the person who laid the objectionable material here will be asked to please not repeat this behavior. In this way we'll see where people want to draw the line.
I would suggest that this thread and your post do not quite rise to the level of asking for a vote on it. For my part, I will concede that I had a bad day and saw that jackass post as the last straw at that moment. But I've seen worse here, occasionally, and just as you reserve for yourself the right to say anything you please here, I'll reserve for myself the right to call you on it when you make a post that's damaging to the forum atmosphere. I think a number of members have been "turned off" by some of what goes on here and they no longer come here. I don't want that to continue. So, if the occasion presents itself, I'll initiate a vote to allow people to give anonymous input into what they think is OK and not OK here.
Grandpa Biff is watching you! Muhahahahaaaaa! Now I'm going hang gliding! Yay!
Dear Hotwax,
Your exaggerations are quite inappropriate to a reasonable examination of this issue. The tactic of stretching things to the extreme to make them seem unreasonable is counterproductive to reaching understanding.
I'm simply saying that I, and most others, took Nash's post to be in the "razzing" category. Where do you come up with such an exaggeration as "pure hatred for his very being"?
About "pinning responsibility for everyone else on you", let's get past that, as that is not the core issue. The core issue is that I personally, and probably some others here, am finding your behavior objectionable, occasionally. It is quite clear that you will not yet make an effort to consider that you might be out of line at some point.
Look, this particular thread is not such a big deal. For me, it was like the straw that broke the camel's back and I finally snapped at you. This was the fourth time that I have been motivated to ask you to back off for the sake of forum peace since the forum software was changed and the prior three times made no impression on you whatsoever. Let me remind you, you'll remember...
1. Soon after the new software, after RL joined, you tossed a direct insult at him without provocation, apparently trying to bait him into an argument. I noted "Hey, that's a 'cheap shot', why are you doing that?" You did not answer I think.
2. Some time later, you did it again, out of the blue writing some childish insults to RL when he wasn't even talking to you. At that time I again noted, "Another cheap shot. Will you please take that sort of thing to private email instead of laying these turds in our forum space?" Your reply was to laugh it off with, "Hey, I paid good money for those shots!"
It's bizarre to me to hear you say how "RL likes to attack me" as if you really believe that you are just innocently cavorting in your forum playground and big, bad RL comes after you.
3. More recently there was some issue in a thread where I saw you as significantly dragging down the tone and quality of discussion with your mean-spirited and unnecessary taunts. I called you on it. You threw up a smokescreen of exaggeration and pointing in other directions, seemingly incapable of any self examination.
4. Now this thread. In itself it seems somewhat trivial but it's the big picture I'm trying to address here.
Don't go to exaggerations again. No one is calling you generally "evil" or "all bad" or any such thing. What I am saying is that the vast majority of forum members know how to keep conversation civil and productive without resorting to flames and name calling. We all can make a "mistake" once in a while. It's your pattern of increasing this behavior (you, not everyone else, I'm talking to you about you) that I'm asking you to reconsider.
Hotwax, your reply is predictable. You and I are not going to come to the slightest agreement here if that agreement includes you saying, "OK, I'll try to think twice before hurling the insults".
So, I propose that we end the discussion by agreeing to what happens the next time anyone on the forums, you and I included, makes a comment that someone finds offensive enough to protest. Don't exaggerate, I don't mean every little trivial taunt between people who often post back and forth, I mean something that someone is willling to say they think is "over the line". It will be rare.
We'll simply put it to a vote if the concern rises to that level. Forum members will be asked to vote: "Is this particular example "over the line" of what you want to allow in these forums?" If the majority answer is "yes" then the person who laid the objectionable material here will be asked to please not repeat this behavior. In this way we'll see where people want to draw the line.
I would suggest that this thread and your post do not quite rise to the level of asking for a vote on it. For my part, I will concede that I had a bad day and saw that jackass post as the last straw at that moment. But I've seen worse here, occasionally, and just as you reserve for yourself the right to say anything you please here, I'll reserve for myself the right to call you on it when you make a post that's damaging to the forum atmosphere. I think a number of members have been "turned off" by some of what goes on here and they no longer come here. I don't want that to continue. So, if the occasion presents itself, I'll initiate a vote to allow people to give anonymous input into what they think is OK and not OK here.
Grandpa Biff is watching you! Muhahahahaaaaa! Now I'm going hang gliding! Yay!