[Not a bug] Slime damage despite suit

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Expand view Topic review: [Not a bug] Slime damage despite suit

by Graf Zahl » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Chris wrote:I haven't touched Windows, heh), being cross-platform is pretty important. That, and the fact that I find being tied to one OS is fairly limiting in audience.


Yes, but you can't get the proper 'Look and Feel' without doing some platform specific things. True cross-platform apps nomally make nobody happy because they feel wrong everywhere. Of course this applies mainly to GUI-apps. For games it doesn't really matter.
If I have to write cross-platform apps I normally use a very thin layer I wrote myself to separate the platform specific stuff. All libraries designed to do this either have some serious flaws or usability issues (SDL's fucked up keyboard handling in fullscreen on Windows comes to mind...) I never used Allegro because currently it's too messy.

by Eevee » Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:57 pm

It's so much easier just writing Web apps... it doesn't matter what OS the user is running, XHTML is universal..

wait! I forgot. Internet Explorer.

Damn, foiled by Microsoft again.

by Chris » Sat Jan 24, 2004 2:47 pm

Allegro's cool. And I'm not forgiving the Legacy team. They could easilly edit the Allegro source (it's really not that hard) and stop it from modifying the system volume.

The problem with Allegro is that it was originally a DOS-only lib. Then people started doing ports for it, to Windows, X, Unix, ect, and they all got lumped together at version 4. There are a few behavioral issues/inconsistencies yes, but they'll be ironed out as time progresses. I use Allegro for any app that I would normally need to use OS-specific calls for, so the program is, by default, cross-platform. And when I do need to do something OS-specific, I just remember to put a note to fix later, or put in other routines for other platforms on the spot. Considering I work in both Linux and WIndows now (actually since I've gotten my sound drivers working in Linux, I haven't touched Windows, heh), being cross-platform is pretty important. That, and the fact that I find being tied to one OS is fairly limiting in audience.

by Eevee » Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:19 am

Aw, I like Allegro.

Then again, I've done a C++ program involving any sort of graphics output exactly once.

And it was a 2D on-the-fly less-than-great Hex clone. o.o so Allegro must be good for SOMETHING...

by HotWax » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:53 am

How is it not directly Legacy's fault? They chose to use that library as opposed to other free libraries that are out there.

by Graf Zahl » Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:52 am

Fitting that a port like Legacy is using a shitty library like this...

by Chris » Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:03 am

- it alters the system's sound settings
If you mean volume, then this is actually the fault of Allegro (if it uses that for the Windows port). For some reason, Allegro changes the system's sound volumes. In it's defense though, Allegro does put them back the way they were when it exits (in the versions I've noticed this problem anyway).. not much of an excuse, I know. But that's not directly Legacy's fault.

by Graf Zahl » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:36 pm

Short answer: no!


But as you said: the 3D-stuff is hacked together and Legacy's OpenGL isn't that good to begin with. What can you say about a renderer which light effects look more like fog than light?

On the other side it has some serious gameplay issues like:
- no voodoo doll which breaks a lot of Boom levels (and hurts even some Final Doom levels, too!)
- the above mentioned damage issue
- no chance to limit a Pain Elemental to 21 Lost Souls as every other decent source port - the code for it has been completely removed.
- It's the only Boom-'compatible' port that doesn't incorporate MBF's gameplay fixes (I don't mean the AI enhancements, just the other stuff) - in fact it's so Boom-'compatible' that many newer Boom-maps don't work with it anymore.

and:

- it alters the system's sound settings


Unless the new version brings massive improvements and addresses all issues mentioned here, I'll never use it again.

by Eevee » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:21 pm

Does Legacy really have any major additions besides multiplayer ingame joining, hacked-together 3D, and opengl? o.o (I'm not trying to bash it, really, I'm.. trying to figure out why the only Doomers who live around here use Legacy instead of ZDoom.)

by Xaser » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:10 pm

FUCK LEGACY!!!

Sorry... um, well, It's kind of strange seeing a thread come up about a topic that I had posted about so long ago. Heh, that thread's pretty darn old. :P

by Graf Zahl » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:12 am

It's typical Legacy crap. Instead of applying damage when the player lands in such a sector they do it if he enters it. I found it totally annoying and it's one of the main reasons that I don't use Legacy for anything that doesn't explicitly require it. It's the classic case of a 'fix' that seriously alters gameplay and those suck!

by Enjay » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:31 am

IIRC Legacy did that to stop people "bunny hopping" across damaging sectors and taking no damage. I'm not saying it was a good fix, but that's why it was done.

by Graf Zahl » Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:46 am

SargeBaldy wrote:yeah i agree legacy might have done that :P i know eternity wouldn't have though

Legacy did something even more stupid: It applies damage immediately after entering a damaging sector.So it's impossible to run over some slime without getting hurt! It's this kind of non-improvements which is Legacy full of why I don't like it.


But they did keep the 2% chance of getting hurt by -20% sectors.

by SargeBaldy » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:58 am

yeah i agree legacy might have done that :P i know eternity wouldn't have though

by HotWax » Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:06 am

For the record, I've been damaged in this situation in vanilla Doom, so it's certainly not impossible. Also, regarding Legacy and other ports, do any of you know if the authors of those ports might have "fixed" this feature so it never occurs at all? Sounds just like something the Legacy guys would do, if you ask me . . .

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