ZDoom

by **Graf Zahl** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:12 pm

Money normally convinces everyone in higher positions. It was either licensing another 10 VC++ 2003 Standard editions (and then manually replacing the compiler with the optimizing version of the free Toolkit) or buying 3 2005 versions and upgrading the third party tools which altogether is considerably cheaper.

by **MartinHowe** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:he is seriously thinking about buying the standard edition for our core development team and using Express for everyone else.

There should be more bosses like him in the world

by **Graf Zahl** » Wed May 24, 2006 8:56 am

randy wrote:Eh? It appears to have debug versions of the libraries. Or do you mean the source code?

Code: Select all

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\lib>dir *d.lib
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 90DF-78CB

 Directory of C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\lib

09/23/2005  12:50 AM           356,526 comsuppd.lib
09/23/2005  12:50 AM           356,202 comsuppwd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         9,758,380 libcmtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         6,703,474 libcpmtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         1,004,566 msvcmrtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         1,623,976 msvcprtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           974,050 msvcrtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         6,632,868 msvcurtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           388,830 ptrustmd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           266,180 ptrustud.lib
              10 File(s)     28,065,052 bytes

I only quoted what some page said. Apparently Microsoft doesn't know what they are doing themselves...

But the source code isn't there for sure.
Anyway, it looks that I won't have to bother with that much longer. After I told my boss that he can get the Express edition for free he is seriously thinking about buying the standard edition for our core development team and using Express for everyone else.

by **MartinHowe** » Wed May 24, 2006 7:42 am

randy wrote:
MartinHowe wrote:Express is well-capable of compiling large C++ and C programs
Anyway, I hope you're happy even if not everybody is.

Not happy as such, but can live with Express until my situation improves and I can go buy the Standard or even Professional version. The SDKs are free downloads or available on CD and until I can buy another computer, 64-bit is irrelevant for now.

Of course, it would have been morally logical for MS to include a project file downgrader, but not commercially logical. There is a freeware VC7->VC6 downgrader, but AFAIK no VC8->VC7 downgrader

by **randi** » Wed May 24, 2006 6:53 am

Eh? It appears to have debug versions of the libraries. Or do you mean the source code?

Code: Select all

C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\lib>dir *d.lib
 Volume in drive C has no label.
 Volume Serial Number is 90DF-78CB

 Directory of C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\lib

09/23/2005  12:50 AM           356,526 comsuppd.lib
09/23/2005  12:50 AM           356,202 comsuppwd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         9,758,380 libcmtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         6,703,474 libcpmtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         1,004,566 msvcmrtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         1,623,976 msvcprtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           974,050 msvcrtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM         6,632,868 msvcurtd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           388,830 ptrustmd.lib
09/23/2005  12:47 AM           266,180 ptrustud.lib
              10 File(s)     28,065,052 bytes

by **Graf Zahl** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:16 am

randy wrote: I have no idea what addons you use, but I never used any, so I don't lose anything by switching to 2005. The immediately obvious gains I can see are more robust error checking, the return of profiling, and a 64-bit cross compiler. Moreover, it opens up the source to a wider audience who would rather use an IDE than a command line with make and GCC.

For once, I only have the Express edition of VC 2005 so many of the 'better' features are not available. For example, the debug builds of the CRT only come with the commercially distributed versions.

by **randi** » Tue May 23, 2006 6:12 pm

Revision 139 builds fine with the Express Edition, but if you are dead-set against using 2005, you can make copies of the project files and edit their version identifiers from "8.00" to "7.10". That's what I was doing with Media Player Classic before I decided to just go ahead and get 2005 so I could use its project files directly.

To fix your problems with the Bison-generated files, you can add __STDC__=0 as a preprocessor definition, but it looks like it's probably unnecessary since they've been regenerated with the older Bison now.

I have no idea what addons you use, but I never used any, so I don't lose anything by switching to 2005. The immediately obvious gains I can see are more robust error checking, the return of profiling, and a 64-bit cross compiler. Moreover, it opens up the source to a wider audience who would rather use an IDE than a command line with make and GCC.

MartinHowe wrote:Express is well-capable of compiling large C++ and C programs

I should hope so, considering that it appears to be exactly the same as Professional but without ATL, MFC, Platform SDK, DirectX SDK, a 64-bit compiler, profiling, or other languages. Anyway, I hope you're happy even if not everybody is.

by **Graf Zahl** » Tue May 23, 2006 10:05 am

Too late! I'm back to 2003 and I will stay there.

I really don't want to work without the add-ons I am used to.

by **Grubber** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:27 am

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/expre ... usingpsdk/

Next time read installation instructions

.

by **Graf Zahl** » Tue May 23, 2006 7:23 am

Of course I've got a platform SDK. As a professional developer I couldn't work without it. The problem is with the linker. Apparently the commercial versions automatically link to the Windows libraries but for Express you have to manually do that.

The result: incompatible project files. Since that seemed to be unavoidable anyway I just renamed all the old 2003 project files and created a duplicate solution so that I can continue to work with the software I am used to. 2005 Express is just a little too limited for my taste and knowing that my company won't upgrade 15 compiler licenses it seems I am stuck with VC 2003 for the time being.

But I've got another problem. Since the upgrade to Rev.135 the Bison generated files no longer compile. That means DEHSUPP.EXE and XLATCC.EXE won't get updated anymore.

by **Heh** » Tue May 23, 2006 7:14 am

Did you get the Platform SDK? Or at least point VC++ Express to your VS 2003 lib and include files? If not almost nothing beyond a simple console app will compile

by **Graf Zahl** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:51 am

So, after messing around with VC++ 2005 Express for 3 hours I finally got ZDoom to compile - but the link fails because it can't find any Windows system call. I'd have to add all the library files manually to the project files which in turn means that I can't do any reasonable SVN updates anymore.

Well, I think that concludes my involvement here...

For the record, GZDoom will not upgrade to VC 2005.

by **Graf Zahl** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:50 am

Maybe. But in typical Microsoft fahion you can load older project files into newer IDEs but not vice versa. And my company has licensed a few expensive add-ons for VC++ 2003 which I am constantly using. None of them works with 2005 so for me it's a significant downgrade.

by **MartinHowe** » Tue May 23, 2006 3:27 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Was this really necessary?

Since 2005 is the shipping current standard MSVC compiler that all the world and his wife (or "her husband" or "their cat"

) will soon be using, I'm afraid yes. You can still get the Express version of 2005 for free and the standard edition isn't that expensive. Express is well-capable of compiling large C++ and C programs -- it copes with (G)ZDoom after all

by **Grubber** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:38 am

I'm all for it. MSVC 2005 > MSVC 2003

ZDoom

Microsoft Visual C++ 2005

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