ver 4.11.1 too dark.

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Expand view Topic review: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by Professor Hastig » Fri Oct 20, 2023 12:37 am

Blzut3 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:47 pm Personally I don't think the game needs any adjustment (and I use the software renderer when possible anyway), but out of pure habit from my days of playing competitive multiplayer I do generally play with gamma 1.2 anyway.
That very much depends on the monitor. Most modern ones are fine but I got one at work where I have to bump the gamma to 1.2 to make it look right, but I chose to increase vid_saturation a bit for compensation of the washed out colors.
Back in the old CRT days I was using higher gammas up to 2.0 sometimes.
Outside of testing where brighter is better I never felt the need to use anything else to fight the darkness in its rendition.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by Blzut3 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:47 pm

The brightness and contrast settings can counteract the gamma setting to some extent to brighten things up without washing out colors much.

Code: Select all

vid_gamma 1.5
vid_brightness -0.2
vid_contrast 0.8
The sliders aren't super precise but you can tweak the brightness/contrast with greater precision in the console to dial it in. I wouldn't recommend going any higher than about 1.5 gamma since then the contrast crushing becomes quite noticeable, but with around brightness -0.4, and contrast 0.67 even gamma 4 can be usable if you want to be absurd about it.

Personally I don't think the game needs any adjustment (and I use the software renderer when possible anyway), but out of pure habit from my days of playing competitive multiplayer I do generally play with gamma 1.2 anyway.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by Hellser » Thu Oct 19, 2023 2:58 pm

Just dropping this in real quick, and I will be monitoring this thread:

Doom was made using software mode. The three sector lighting options matches close or well enough to software mode. If mappers were making maps using Doom Legacy or Bright light modes, that's on them. Especially since Doom Builder and SLADE have accurate enough lighting models for map making.

Also, no. "Bright" does NOT match Doom.exe - no where in hell does it match Doom.exe

Woof! (Doom's Software Renderer):


GZDoom (Software Sector Lighting Mode):


GZDoom (Software Sector Lighting Mode + Palette Tonemap):


To help fix OP's problem, either mess with gamma or use any of the mods popping up as of late to add "Bright" back in. There's also DarkDoomZ that can INCREASE the sector's brightness on the fly. But this back and forth shit needs to stop. I'd take the developer's words as fact. Especially since dpJudas for a long time was working on a Software Polymer-like renderer.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by dpJudas » Thu Oct 19, 2023 1:09 pm

Okay whatever you say dude. You set up your own comparison that nobody else argued for and then concluded you were right. Good job.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by yum13241 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:57 am

Even with gamma 2 it still looks washed out and is not what OP wants. OP wants the sectors themselves to be brighter, not the amount of white to be increased.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by wildweasel » Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:55 am

But who was saying that the gamma needs to go that high? "Turn it up" was what was said. "Turn it up to maximum level" was very much not said.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by yum13241 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 11:03 am

dpJudas wrote: I told the OP to turn up the gamma if the game was too dark.
"Bright" is objectively more accurate to doom.exe than gamma 4.0. Increasing the gamma correction value will wash out the graphics, like in the case of 4.0.
Why does this matter? Because If it's more accurate to doom.exe, that means it can't be "ruined", otherwise you're just shitting on Doom in a Doom forum.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by dpJudas » Thu Oct 19, 2023 10:10 am

Please quote me for where I said you should set the gamma to 4.0. Yes, that's right! I never said that! YOU are the one that keeps using that number. I told the OP to turn up the gamma if the game was too dark. Then I poked fun at the old bright mode being as ugly as using extreme gamma levels, which your screenshot just confirms the way I see it - totally ruined graphics.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by yum13241 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:44 am

dpJudas wrote: Why are you setting up this false narrative with a 4.0 gamma value?
Because 4.0 gamma is NOT the same as the former "Bright" setting ever "was", just like pressing your "increase brightness" button is NOT the same as bumping up the gamma value on your monitor. You, however, claim that they are (or so I understood). I myself use "Software" with 1 gamma, but on OpenGLES it falls back to the "Classic (faster)" setting.

What the old Bright mode looked like:
Image

What gamma 4.0 looks like in "Classic (faster)" mode:
Image

While the comparison is extreme, it showcases the difference between high gamma and a lighting mode.

Btw, Build mode is a fullbright cheat if you disable fog. Also, Software is the brightest mode, heh.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by dpJudas » Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:57 am

Why are you setting up this false narrative with a 4.0 gamma value? The Doom lighting formula is also perfectly fine. If you don't believe me, try post on Doomworld that you think it is super ugly and see how many likes you get and how many likes the guy replying you're out of your mind will get! Maybe you just don't like the graphics of Doom if you need this kind of gamma level...

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by yum13241 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 8:40 am

dpJudas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:16 am Most games only give you the gamma setting. And people still play them just fine. Strange how that is. I should probably point out here that I'm one of those that always adjust the gamma to 1.10 in Doom because I too find the base game too dark. Works perfectly fine for me, no mod needed.
Because most games have a good lighting formula.
Try setting gamma 4.0 for an entire day. You'll hate it.


Oh, and as for the mod Major Cooke made, mine allows saving and has user friendly names and descriptions.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by Rachael » Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:23 am

There was also this, too.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by dpJudas » Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:16 am

Most games only give you the gamma setting. And people still play them just fine. Strange how that is. I should probably point out here that I'm one of those that always adjust the gamma to 1.10 in Doom because I too find the base game too dark. Works perfectly fine for me, no mod needed.

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by yum13241 » Thu Oct 19, 2023 7:05 am

dpJudas wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:43 am
yum13241 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 2:11 am Maybe stop being so disingenuous. r_visibility and gl_maplightmode exist and the "Bright" mode isn't as trashy as gamma correction 4.0.
What am I being disingenuous about? I think all the alternative light modes look absolutely horrible and are totally raping the visuals of the game.

However, my main point was that in every other game people can live with the standard brightness controls, but in the Doom community you apparently need special light mode treatment to be able to play the game? If you're unhappy about me not mentioning some cvars, then that is simply because I believe it is better to apply the same solution to Doom as you do to any other game out there: use the brightness controls.
Rachael wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:48 am Should also probably mention that using lightmodes that a map was not intended for pretty much counts as cheating.

If you want to cheat that's fine, but there's no way that you can tell me the original implementation of gl_lightmode was an intended way to play any map, unless a mapper always kept it like that anyway and designed their map around it without realising it was not what was intended by the engine. (oops) - that's what the gl_maplightmode cvar and the lightmode property in mapinfo are for.
I'm taking about maps that were made before the MAPINFO property, but looked bad in different light modes.

Gamma != "Brightness controls".

Also, check this out. (Shameless plug of a "mod" that took half an hour to make and refine)

Re: ver 4.11.1 too dark.

by Rachael » Thu Oct 19, 2023 6:48 am

Should also probably mention that using lightmodes that a map was not intended for pretty much counts as cheating.

If you want to cheat that's fine, but there's no way that you can tell me the original implementation of gl_lightmode was an intended way to play any map, unless a mapper always kept it like that anyway and designed their map around it without realising it was not what was intended by the engine. (oops) - that's what the gl_maplightmode cvar and the lightmode property in mapinfo are for.

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