Freelook improvements

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Re: Freelook improvements

by sinisterseed » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:34 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
Talon1024 wrote: It looks like Polymost renders a trapezoid-shaped view onto a rectangle, whereas Polymer does proper 3D perspective projection.
Yes, that's precisely what it does. I just never noticed that this actually affects how the image looks.
It's quite easy to notice when looking down at maximum, especially on water.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Graf Zahl » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:14 pm

Talon1024 wrote: It looks like Polymost renders a trapezoid-shaped view onto a rectangle, whereas Polymer does proper 3D perspective projection.
Yes, that's precisely what it does. I just never noticed that this actually affects how the image looks.

Re: Freelook improvements

by sinisterseed » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:13 pm

Yeah, same here, but it's not surprising considering Polymost does use Y-shearing for some things now, such as the sky rendering.

It's easy to notice this effect on water too.

Re: Freelook improvements

by markanini » Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:09 pm

I can definitely see it.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Talon1024 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:58 pm

Here are two screenshots taken from E1L1 in Raze (Polymost) and Eduke32 (Polymer) in (almost) the same location, and (almost) the same view orientation:
ImageImage
ImageImage
Polymer's perspective projection looks better, whilst Polymost looks like it has slight Y-shearing in comparison. It looks like Polymost renders a trapezoid-shaped view onto a rectangle, whereas Polymer does proper 3D perspective projection.

EDIT: Also, here's the start of E1L1, looking straight down, in Raze (Polymost) and Eduke32 (Polymer)
ImageImage

Re: Freelook improvements

by Graf Zahl » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:09 pm

It works differently, yes, but Polymost still uses true 3D rotations for pitching. What exactly is supposedly wrong with Polymost?

Re: Freelook improvements

by Phredreeke » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:03 pm

That's Polymer. It works completely differently from Polymost.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Talon1024 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:58 pm

Well, if there's nothing that can be done about the up/down freelook limitations without breaking stuff, so be it. But there's something else about the freelook that's been bothering me.

Notice how looking up and down feels more natural in this video?


If you try to look up or down in Polymost, it feels more like you're using the software renderer than a true 3D renderer.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Rachael » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:10 am

Fox666 wrote:Original CON code no, but mods definitely would break with such a change.
If there's a way, I'd prefer to do it this way: If post-source-release CON code is found, then it'd use the existing (tangent) math, otherwise, it'd use proper sine/cosine math for the angles. Not sure how Graf feels about it.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Fox666 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:59 am

Phredreeke wrote:Yeah, thinking about it, it would be weird aiming straight up and firing and the bullet marks don’t appear where you aim, rather far below it.

Could changing the projectile code in Duke3D/RR/IF to allow for freelook be done without rewriting the CON code and breaking compatibility with existing mods?
Original CON code no, but mods definitely would break with such a change.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:22 am

Phredreeke wrote: Could changing the projectile code in Duke3D/RR/IF to allow for freelook be done without rewriting the CON code and breaking compatibility with existing mods?
No idea yet. I somehow doubt that the original CON would ever have allowed doing the math on the script side.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Phredreeke » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:14 am

Yeah, thinking about it, it would be weird aiming straight up and firing and the bullet marks don’t appear where you aim, rather far below it.

Could changing the projectile code in Duke3D/RR/IF to allow for freelook be done without rewriting the CON code and breaking compatibility with existing mods?

Re: Freelook improvements

by Rachael » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:08 am

I don't know why, other than demo backwards compatibility, why anyone would want to retain the tangental math for projectiles. That is just a quick and dirty fix, almost like freelook was a feature tacked onto the engine at the last minute.

Re: Freelook improvements

by Graf Zahl » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:03 am

Agreed, that doesn't sound right.

Re: Freelook improvements

by sinisterseed » Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:57 am

That sounds kinda hackish to me tbh.

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