[4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

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Expand view Topic review: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by _mental_ » Tue May 21, 2019 11:05 pm

axredneck wrote:
_mental_ wrote:...Are you using proprietary NVIDIA drivers?...
Proprietary of course, nouveau doesn't have Vulkan.
Sure it doesn’t. This was my reply on your post about bad performance with OpenGL.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by axredneck » Tue May 21, 2019 3:02 pm

_mental_ wrote:...Are you using proprietary NVIDIA drivers?...
...Did you report them?...
Proprietary of course, nouveau doesn't have Vulkan.
I'll try to report Vulkan bug.
edit: tried to reproduce "major" Vulkan bug but it disappeared. If it will appear again i'll report it.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by _mental_ » Tue May 21, 2019 1:03 pm

axredneck wrote:For me OpenGL is much slower than Softpoly or Vulkan on any wad. AMD FX-6300, Geforce GTX 1050, linux.
Are you using proprietary NVIDIA drivers? Performance should be mostly equal to Windows on the same PC.
If you are using Nouveau, well, good luck then.
axredneck wrote:Waiting for Vulkan to stabilize, now it has major bugs.
Did you report them? I don’t see any though. There are two opened issues at the moment.
However, they seem to be specific to particular settings and hardware configuration.
“Major bugs” term is not only an exaggeration, it’s just a deception.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by axredneck » Tue May 21, 2019 10:21 am

For me OpenGL is much slower than Softpoly or Vulkan on any wad. AMD FX-6300, Geforce GTX 1050, linux. Waiting for Vulkan to stabilize, now it has major bugs.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Rachael » Tue May 21, 2019 7:46 am

That's pretty much what it boils down to. And you're welcome.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Elias79 » Tue May 21, 2019 7:44 am

Rachael wrote:There's no reason an 850m should be horribly slow. That's probably getting CPU-locked, there, which isn't surprising because mobile CPU's are utter shit. This can happen even despite the GPU being fairly decent.
I'm betting the 960 is in a desktop rig that has a much bigger CPU that's able to handle all the effects thrown at it. That makes a huge difference with mods like Brutal Doom.
Ok then the only possible reason i can think of is that the CPU gets much more to do under certain conditions when using Open GL and not that the Graphics card does much more at all but the "sync" between them takes extra time, i absolutely does not know any of this but i cant think of another explanation in my case, and thanks for the replies you saved me buying a new GPU just to play doom better.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Rachael » Tue May 21, 2019 7:32 am

There's no reason an 850m should be horribly slow. That's probably getting CPU-locked, there, which isn't surprising because mobile CPU's are utter shit. This can happen even despite the GPU being fairly decent.

I'm betting the 960 is in a desktop rig that has a much bigger CPU that's able to handle all the effects thrown at it. That makes a huge difference with mods like Brutal Doom.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Elias79 » Tue May 21, 2019 7:27 am

Thanks very much just the type of info i needed, and yes my best gaming PC uses a r9 280x AMD GPU, while the others a mobile Nvidia Geforce 850m and my older rig a Nvidia Geforce Gtx 960, the mobile GPU is also slower tho.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Rachael » Tue May 21, 2019 7:21 am

Elias79 wrote:i just NEED a explanation for my results.

EDIT: I apologize if this was the incorrect place for this discussion, i just want to understand things better.

OpenGL is entirely single-threaded and chances are you're using an AMD GPU which is known to handle this quite horribly. All the draw calls on an AMD happen in sequence with the BSP walking and culling and other setup that GZDoom does, which causes a frame cycle to take quite a bit longer with OpenGL, especially with more complex maps, especially with scenes that have a ton of sprites in them.

This is made worse by the fact that no geometry in GZDoom is static - both the fact that sectors can move up and down, as well as the possibility of polyobjects, makes it so that GZDoom has to regenerate the geometry every single frame - which adds to this mess.

NVidia handles this a little more gracefully by executing a completely separate thread for all this fuckery, so that GZDoom can set up the next frame in tandem while NVidia/drivers/GPU execute the current one.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by dpJudas » Tue May 21, 2019 7:21 am

Like most performance things the truth is complicated. For vanilla/boom style maps the typical bottleneck is the CPU where generating the data for the GPU is more expensive than what the GPU does.

For GZDoom mods it gets a lot more complicated. Some mods suffer from inefficient scripting (CPU work), some from too many dynamic lights (GPU work), excessive amounts of particles, decals and sprites (both CPU and GPU).

On my computer I haven't seen the software renderer ever beat the GPU (my GPU is always very high end). But perhaps on sufficiently low end GPU's it might. On this MacBook Pro (2014 model with Intel GPU) the hardware accelerated version clearly does not like dynamic lights one bit. I haven't compared it to the software renderer's dynlights, but its plausible it could outperform it.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Elias79 » Tue May 21, 2019 7:16 am

Rachael wrote:I can't hear you because I'm always right even though I know absolutely nothing about programming!"
I never claimed i did, and i never claimed i was right either, why are you attacking me? i just NEED a explanation for my results.

EDIT: I apologize if this was the incorrect place for this discussion, i just want to understand things better.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Rachael » Tue May 21, 2019 7:13 am

Elias79 wrote:Well if this is true, why did someone say that the Open Gl renderer is very very inefficient compared to the software renderer and when i have tested brutal doom etc on a self made map and got more than double the fps in software mode compared to hardware, and while you may be right
to 99% even if the GPU was nearly unused i wrote that the CPU had to work MORE when using the GPU due to having to convert data and prepare it for the GPU?

TLDR: Open GL creates more work for CPU
In other words: "La la la, you're stupid, I can't hear you because I'm always right even though I know absolutely nothing about programming!"



Good show.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Elias79 » Tue May 21, 2019 7:10 am

phantombeta wrote: Nope. Slowness with mods like Brutal Doom has nothing to do with rendering, it's because those mods have to use actors for effects like gore and casings, and actors are extremely expensive. For example, the time taken by the sector-relinking code alone very likely far outweighs the time taken up by rendering all the sprites in the map. Remember, GPUs are made to draw millions of polygons.
GZDoom is CPU-bottlenecked by things like the sector relinking code and the BSP. Unless you enable things like shadowmaps, or have thousands of dynamic lights at once, the GPU barely does anything while the CPU does a ton of work.
Well if this is true, why did someone say that the Open Gl renderer is very very inefficient compared to the software renderer and when i have tested brutal doom etc on a self made map and got more than double the fps in software mode compared to hardware, and while you may be right
to 99% even if the GPU was nearly unused i wrote that the CPU had to work MORE when using the GPU due to having to convert data and prepare it for the GPU, if i misunderstood then please correct me but i know from my own test that software always is faster using some mods, my assumtion is the CPU overhead using the hardware mode as the GPU can't handle doom raw data.

TLDR: Open GL creates more work for CPU

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by phantombeta » Tue May 21, 2019 6:44 am

Elias79 wrote:
axredneck wrote:
Darkcrafter wrote:...I'm sorry, but should I indeed get GTX 1080 to play THIS?...
No, you should get I7 8800. GZDoom with Brutal Doom becomes CPU-heavy, not GPU-heavy.
True in general but not when it comes to sprite rendering unless Open GL rendering gives the CPU 4 times more work compared to software rendering when it comes to sprites so the CPU needs to work overtime to convert game data for the GPU in realtime due to how the engine works.

Can anyone confirm this?
Nope. Slowness with mods like Brutal Doom has nothing to do with rendering, it's because those mods have to use actors for effects like gore and casings, and actors are extremely expensive. For example, the time taken by the sector-relinking code alone very likely far outweighs the time taken up by rendering all the sprites in the map. Remember, GPUs are made to draw millions of polygons.
GZDoom is CPU-bottlenecked by things like the sector relinking code and the BSP. Unless you enable things like shadowmaps, or have thousands of dynamic lights at once, the GPU barely does anything while the CPU does a ton of work.

Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

by Elias79 » Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 am

axredneck wrote:
Darkcrafter wrote:...I'm sorry, but should I indeed get GTX 1080 to play THIS?...
No, you should get I7 8800. GZDoom with Brutal Doom becomes CPU-heavy, not GPU-heavy.
True in general but not when it comes to sprite rendering unless Open GL rendering gives the CPU 4 times more work compared to software rendering when it comes to sprites so the CPU needs to work overtime to convert game data for the GPU in realtime due to how the engine works.

Can anyone confirm this?

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