by cortlong50 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:01 am
Chris wrote:Enjay wrote:I'm getting a little lost as to how/under what circumstances this problem manifests.
The more fundamental issue is that sound is treated as if there's no walls. The sound scene is essentially a wide open area using a reverb preset for the player's current position (a sound 2 meter to your left will always sound like it's unobstructed 2 meter to your left, even if the map itself has a thick wall in between you and the sound). It's a similar issue to the way large dynamic lights can "bleed" through walls when they're not shadowmapped. Implementing occlusion/exclusion would go a long way to really fix this issue, but would require a fair amount of work since it needs to do continuous real-time "visibility" checks for sounds to neighboring reverb zones. It's certainly possible, but it's math-heavy stuff that I've not really looked into.
Hey Chris, as someone who spends a shitload of time dialing in all my ambient sounds (too much time...i spend entirely too much time making sure theyre good) the bleeding actually isnt that big of an issue. in fact the computing power (and dev time) it would take to calculate all of that would probably not be worth it. as it sat back in the older versions the reverbs were quite kick ass. i never had an issue with hearing a noise through walls or felt like it was odd. it worked perfectly.
Enjay wrote:
If it is the former, I would suggest that a lot of maps will already be "in the wild" and will have been set up to expect the 1 unit = 1 metre value. Defaulting to the more accurate 32 units = 1 metre could therefore potentially break a lot of maps.
However, if it is the latter, fewer maps will be affected. There will probably be some though. Would there be enough to justify making the old formula the default and make the newer, more correct, formula something that is set by a modder?
I realise that defaulting to the inaccurate behaviour is less desirable (as Rachael said), and that defaulting to the old formula would make it less likely that people would specify the new one - but if there are enough maps out there that are going to be broken by this...
im kinda with enjay on this one (if it matters what i say...also his english spelling is melting my brain...mericuh). I think getting things to a more precise standard is important, but i dont know if its worth breaking previous maps that use reverbs which would basically be all of them ever created besides the most recent ones. a togglable (how the hell do you spell that?) option (when placing the reverbs) would be pretty cool, but i think a default to the original standard would be ideal, for backwards compatibility sake. if it were something to toggle in the options menu...well....to be honest opening the options from 2.7 vs 3.7 i was like "holy hell". quite honestly the menu is getting pretty dense...theres a lot of stuff in there.
a standard is important to keep, but a difference between 1 and 32 would be quite jolting. if it were a smaller difference id say do it...but thats pretty substantial and could cause decay far faster and sound weird.
just my two cents.
i was reading over the code...was it set to 32 or 1? (sorry the
// units per meter scale (32?), and set the meters per unit to the scale's
// units per meter scale (1), and set the meters per unit to the scale's -- section had me confused).
and when will be see it implemented? no rush, just wondering.
[quote="Chris"][quote="Enjay"]I'm getting a little lost as to how/under what circumstances this problem manifests.[/quote]
The more fundamental issue is that sound is treated as if there's no walls. The sound scene is essentially a wide open area using a reverb preset for the player's current position (a sound 2 meter to your left will always sound like it's unobstructed 2 meter to your left, even if the map itself has a thick wall in between you and the sound). It's a similar issue to the way large dynamic lights can "bleed" through walls when they're not shadowmapped. Implementing occlusion/exclusion would go a long way to really fix this issue, but would require a fair amount of work since it needs to do continuous real-time "visibility" checks for sounds to neighboring reverb zones. It's certainly possible, but it's math-heavy stuff that I've not really looked into.[/quote]
Hey Chris, as someone who spends a shitload of time dialing in all my ambient sounds (too much time...i spend entirely too much time making sure theyre good) the bleeding actually isnt that big of an issue. in fact the computing power (and dev time) it would take to calculate all of that would probably not be worth it. as it sat back in the older versions the reverbs were quite kick ass. i never had an issue with hearing a noise through walls or felt like it was odd. it worked perfectly.
[quote="Enjay"]
If it is the former, I would suggest that a lot of maps will already be "in the wild" and will have been set up to expect the 1 unit = 1 metre value. Defaulting to the more accurate 32 units = 1 metre could therefore potentially break a lot of maps.
However, if it is the latter, fewer maps will be affected. There will probably be some though. Would there be enough to justify making the old formula the default and make the newer, more correct, formula something that is set by a modder?
I realise that defaulting to the inaccurate behaviour is less desirable (as Rachael said), and that defaulting to the old formula would make it less likely that people would specify the new one - but if there are enough maps out there that are going to be broken by this...[/quote]
im kinda with enjay on this one (if it matters what i say...also his english spelling is melting my brain...mericuh). I think getting things to a more precise standard is important, but i dont know if its worth breaking previous maps that use reverbs which would basically be all of them ever created besides the most recent ones. a togglable (how the hell do you spell that?) option (when placing the reverbs) would be pretty cool, but i think a default to the original standard would be ideal, for backwards compatibility sake. if it were something to toggle in the options menu...well....to be honest opening the options from 2.7 vs 3.7 i was like "holy hell". quite honestly the menu is getting pretty dense...theres a lot of stuff in there.
a standard is important to keep, but a difference between 1 and 32 would be quite jolting. if it were a smaller difference id say do it...but thats pretty substantial and could cause decay far faster and sound weird.
just my two cents.
i was reading over the code...was it set to 32 or 1? (sorry the
// units per meter scale (32?), and set the meters per unit to the scale's
// units per meter scale (1), and set the meters per unit to the scale's -- section had me confused).
and when will be see it implemented? no rush, just wondering.