GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

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Expand view Topic review: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by _mental_ » Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:09 am

Warrex wrote:Can anyone tell me how the Windows version and the macOS version differ concerning input?
Of course, input implementations are completely different. There is no DirectInput or WinAPI on macOS. There is no Cocoa on Windows.
There are noticeable differences in mouse handling inside operating systems themselves.
Moreover, GZDoom has three independent mouse input implementations on Windows.
Warrex wrote:Does GZDoom on Mac use SDL?
No, it doesn't. It is possible to build Mac version with SDL2 backend, although such version was never released.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Warrex » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:26 pm

Sorry for the bump but this is somewhat related:

Can anyone tell me how the Windows version and the macOS version differ concerning input? The macOS version feels laggier despite VSync off and a constant 60fps. Does GZDoom on Mac use SDL? Windows ports who do always felt laggy to me but I do not know if SDL really is the culprit.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by ReFracture » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:44 pm

Welp it's time to eat my words here a bit.

For sanity checking I recreated the scenario on my desktop with an older 60hz panel; you guys are right DWM does indeed shut off, I can easily get vsync off and a nice responsive mouse in the latest GZDoom.

I also went back and did some more specific testing on the laptop with older versions of GZDoom with the original resolution menu and LZDoom.. the exact same problem persists.

The problem on my laptop I think is related to nvidia optimus. It's this obnoxious dual GPU setup where the Intel GPU is the one actually connected to the display and the nvidia GPU is activated on demand and just sent as a framebuffer I think, I don't fully understand it, but the result is the nvidia control panel is pretty bare bones with it. Both it and the Intel control panel have options for forcing, disabling, or allowing application control of vsync. Forcing it on caps the frame rate at 60, but forcing it off still doesn't allow tearing or improve the input lag.

I was wondering if there was a way to just force the game to use the intel GPU, but no matter what i've tried so far (Notebook Switchable GPU option in any of the states and forcing integrated with the nvidia control panel) result in it using that, with GL_VENDOR always showing the nvidia GPU.

I'm not sure what else to do but the issue I think has at least been narrowed down to this crappy dual gpu setup that has given me so many problems since I bought this damn thing (makes linux a living nightmare) so.. disregard this issue I guess.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by dpJudas » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:12 am

The DWM disables itself when you run an application full screen. All that is required is that the window covers exactly the dimensions of the screen without window decorations, which GZDoom does in full screen mode. I don't experience any input lag either - in fact, after the rawinput commit I pushed it runs as smooth as I've ever seen.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by drfrag » Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:20 am

For me there's no lag and this is a 60 Hz panel. I believe there's a compatibility option to run apps disabling DWM.
Have you tried LZDoom in hardware mode? Does it make a difference?

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by ReFracture » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:39 pm

As much as I hate to bump an old thread like happened already.. I feel it's better than making a new one.

I run GZDoom 4.3.3 on Windows 10 Home, specs as follows:
Dell Inspiron 7559
i7 6700HQ
16gb ram
GTX 960m driver version 445.75/Intel HD Graphics 530 (one of those annoying nvidia optimus designs..)

As stated before ever since the overhaul to the display system where manual resolution selections disappeared.. with it seemed exclusive full screen as well.

To the point: I cannot make the renderer tear. It doesn't matter if it's running at 200 fps on the 60hz panel, it doesn't tear, and the mouse feels horribly.. horribly delayed, as if vsync was turned on even though vid_vsync is set to false, changing it true only seems to cap the fps and not affect the perceived input lag.

Is the lag placebo? I don't think so. Every other game I've tried that supports exclusive full screen doesn't have this issue, and even GZDoom itself (Same version) running under Linux on the same laptop with the desktop compositor disabled feels responsive and very playable, it tears but I tolerate it for a responsive mouse.

As far as I know you cannot get Windows 10's desktop compositor to leave you alone without exclusive full screen. The referenced examples of design for this change in GZDoom (The "Where's my resolutions" thread that was made around the time this change came to be in drd builds) are all cursor driven games like Starcraft II and Diablo 3.. not twitchy first person shooters.

This hasn't ruined GZDoom for me, on my Windows 10 desktop with a 144hz gsync monitor the input lag is noticeable but negligible since its less than half the latency it would be on a 60hz panel.. but GZDoom on my laptop really sucks if I'm not living by the penguin.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by De-M-oN » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:43 pm

I can confirm that it feels a bit weird compared to Zandronum.
I got used to it now, but Zandronum feels better.

Maybe it's the same problem idk.

It's also weird that it feels better with mouse at 1000hz polling rate.
In old versions it was the opposite - 125 hz polling rate felt the best and 1000hz felt weird.
Which is why I used 125 hz for gzdoom still.
But now 1000hz feels much better.

With 1000hz I can live with the input. But Zandronum still feels a little bit more smooth to me.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Mynameislol » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:43 pm

Ok, i've compared with older versions, and while there are indeed less input lag in previous versions, with nvidia's latest driver updates and the new "Ultra-Low Latency" feature, it's more subtle.

However, comparing with the Quake II sourceport "Yamagi Quake II", the difference is clear as night an day, which makes me think, maybe GZDoom/ZDoom needs a mouse input overhaul?

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Mynameislol » Tue Aug 27, 2019 2:12 pm

I've been reading a bit, and it the reason why there's input lag is because windows 10 uses something called DWM, but it's disabled in fullscreen applications

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Graf Zahl » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:51 am

Ok. I wasn't sure about the exact date. Still, this is weird. On such modern hardware the 3.5 changes shouldn't have such an effect.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by drfrag » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:00 am

The new timer code predated GZDoom 3.3.2, it's in the legacy versions.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Mynameislol » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:43 pm

LZDoom did not have any input lag whatsoever, my system specs are

I7-6700k 4Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 3666 Mhz, Geforce GTX 1080 TI Stock

Operating System is Windows 10.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Graf Zahl » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:16 pm

It may also be the new timer code that got introduced around the same time. Hard to tell without system specs.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by drfrag » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:23 pm

Most likely new display code and not so great hardware, try LZDoom.

Re: GZDoom 3.5.0 Input Lag

by Mynameislol » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:49 am

Sorry for this massive bump, but i was about to make a new thread.

I can confirm that in both the latest vintage build and GZDoom version 3.4.1 there is no input lag, while every version after it has.

This is very noticeable on 144hz+ refresh rates, and makes the mouse movement feel really sluggish.

To confirm that it wasn't just a placebo, i made some slow-motion recordings with my phone, there i could very clearly see the delayed mouse movement.

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