ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

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Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Redneckerz » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:48 pm

Rachael wrote:I've gone ahead and archived the whole thing on Github. Hopefully, having it in more places means it is less likely to ever get lost.

https://github.com/drdteam/zduke
Ooh :wub: Very nice. I agree, having this kind of thing (Where its pretty obvious where its from and okay to do so) on more places is definitely a good thing.

Now i feel compelled to make a thread about it at ''neighbors''.

Thanks Rachael. And additionally, thank you for all your other services (You know which). I have been gratefully using it for a lot of things and its been a great help for me and everyone else in the community.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Rachael » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:06 am

I've gone ahead and archived the whole thing on Github. Hopefully, having it in more places means it is less likely to ever get lost.

https://github.com/drdteam/zduke

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Redneckerz » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:19 pm

Redneckerz wrote:I think it should be specified when this was and who uploaded it (Randi) along with the reason why (The preservation discussion). As it reads now, it reads as if suddenly a change occurred, but there is nothing to corroborate this based on the past sentence along
Obmitting the reason why because its rather obvious, ive edited the Wiki entry to be a bit more clear on the when part and linked to the specific post of Randi sharing the source code for completeness.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Redneckerz » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:03 pm

In the span of 14 years one can change opinions. But everyone has their pet-peeves. I just found it intriquing:)

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Rachael » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:08 pm

I doubt you honestly expected him to be any different about that.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Redneckerz » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:16 am

Rachael wrote: Be that as it may, this doesn't change the fact that no matter how pretty winrar is, it's still a piece of shit compared to the freeware alternative.
I am not looking at prettyness, i honestly do not care about that. I am talking about how a consumer sees this, which is often very different from what the ideal solution is. Because both archivers essentially do the same thing. Its just that WinRAR is much more of a household name than 7-Zip.

In basis its a variant of why people prefer Windows over Linux or iOS vs Android to a lesser degree. Consumer know Windows/WinRar so anything outside the realm is scary to the point where they can't be bothered just to install 7-zip and give it a go. Fear of new ''names'' for alternative programs is often irrational by a large consumer base that simply uses their machine for just that, consuming.

EDIT:
Reading thru a bump for another thread, i came across this:
Graf Zahl wrote:I never understood why people still use WinRAR when there are much better tools like 7zip out there...
From 2006. Atleast Graf has been very consistent with this since. :lol:

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Rachael » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:20 am

Redneckerz wrote:
Rachael wrote: And this goes right back to the point I made earlier - this has always been the primary selling point for winrar and probably why it continuously maintains a base, despite 7zip being better.
Plus, WinRAR has a more known public image - Most consumers just want a working archiver and can care less if its compression methods are less. This is also supported by my own support experience regarding these things - WinRAR is far more known and it also gets mentioned mags a ton more often than 7-zip does.
Be that as it may, this doesn't change the fact that no matter how pretty winrar is, it's still a piece of shit compared to the freeware alternative.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Redneckerz » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:42 am

Rachael wrote: And this goes right back to the point I made earlier - this has always been the primary selling point for winrar and probably why it continuously maintains a base, despite 7zip being better.
Plus, WinRAR has a more known public image - Most consumers just want a working archiver and can care less if its compression methods are less. This is also supported by my own support experience regarding these things - WinRAR is far more known and it also gets mentioned mags a ton more often than 7-zip does.
randi wrote:
drfrag wrote:7Zip ... can't even add files to an archive from the UI.
I don't know about that. It worked fine when I put the source archive together yesterday.

As for Ken's coding style, keep in mind that he likes (liked?) to prototype with BASIC, so that alone is going to have an effect on what the code looks like.
It works indeed fine using 7-zip itself. It just spits out a whole list of errors with WinRAR.
If i recall Ken still likes prototyping stuff in BASIC, for his 90s work this stuff was fine, but i can imagine that his other engine related work is too full of obfuscated code based on this. But aside from Build 2, he has worked on improving on a GPU shader compiler, so i wonder if those enhancements see a difference in code quality.

But that's for another time. :)

PS:
I saw Gez (Thank you Gez!) edited the ZDuke wiki article to include ''Eventually, the source code was reuploaded as a zip file. ''. I think it should be specified when this was and who uploaded it (Randi) along with the reason why (The preservation discussion). As it reads now, it reads as if suddenly a change occurred, but there is nothing to corroborate this based on the past sentence along

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Rachael » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:14 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
randi wrote: As for Ken's coding style, keep in mind that he likes (liked?) to prototype with BASIC, so that alone is going to have an effect on what the code looks like.

That surely explains a lot. In particular his preference of value arrays over structs in many places.
Recent (I mean QB4.5 or later, they're obviously all ancient now) versions of QuickBASIC allowed you to do custom types that were C-struct style. But it still didn't allow unions. So I don't think that's any excuse for him.

I know this because I've done prototyping in BASIC before, myself.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by drfrag » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:54 am

I've tried 2.0.98 with DXGL on win 10 and runs fine, i just created a profile for ZDoom. So ZDuke should work as well.
I didn't manage to run an ancient PRBoom with this tough.
https://dxgl.org/downloads/

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Graf Zahl » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:13 am

randi wrote: As for Ken's coding style, keep in mind that he likes (liked?) to prototype with BASIC, so that alone is going to have an effect on what the code looks like.

That surely explains a lot. In particular his preference of value arrays over structs in many places.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by drfrag » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:51 pm

I mean you can't add files to an existing archive from within 7Zip only from explorer, no big deal anyway.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by randi » Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:29 pm

drfrag wrote:7Zip ... can't even add files to an archive from the UI.
I don't know about that. It worked fine when I put the source archive together yesterday.

As for Ken's coding style, keep in mind that he likes (liked?) to prototype with BASIC, so that alone is going to have an effect on what the code looks like.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by Rachael » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:42 pm

drfrag wrote:7Zip has a better algorithm but Winrar's UI is better, you can't even add files to an archive from the UI.
And this goes right back to the point I made earlier - this has always been the primary selling point for winrar and probably why it continuously maintains a base, despite 7zip being better.

Re: ZDuke: The Lost Port (Aka an effort for preservation)

by drfrag » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:54 pm

randi wrote: I am rather sad that it now spits out an error that DirectDraw returned no display modes, so it doesn't get very far during the startup process.
Thanks for sharing, it's always nice to have a piece of history recovered. I succesfully managed to run ancient ZDoom versions on win 8.1 using DXGL.
Edit: for me it extracts fine with winrar. 7Zip has a better algorithm but Winrar's UI is better, you can't even add files to an archive from the UI.

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