Splash Damage in beta

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Sticky
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Splash Damage in beta

Post by Sticky »

Hi all,
This is not a bug, per se, but more of an oddity (hence it's in general--the day I have an actual bug to report, I'll eat my hat).
It doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but it does impact me greatly.

What I wanna know is if there have been significant revisions to the rocket splash damage since 1.22. It appears to me that the cross-thrust, errr, the splash in the lateral direction (esp. coming off a wall) has been greatly reduced (follow me? No, I didn't think so. :-( ). Like, splash still pushes in the Y and Z axis, but not the X... if that made any sense. (Nope, prolly made it worse)
In fact, it seems to push stronger in the upward direction (z) than before, perhaps exactly as much as it's not pushing sideways (x,y)... maybe the exhaustion model just changed, but the net thrust is the same :?: [/BS]

To demonstrate what I'm talking about, I've made two demos--yes, call me demo happy. Whatever.

It is now possible to consecutively rocket jump against any flat surface; meaning the sky (and your health) is the limit.
*The 'platformtrain' one really demonstrates the point.

Anyway, maybe only Randy would know, but if anyone has any ideas, please let me know!
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Post by HotWax »

I don't know what you'd do if I didn't feel sorry for you and download your demos just so you could say someone did.

Also, I think you're a closet homo. Rounded is harder, indeed . . .
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Post by Sticky »

HotWax wrote:I don't know what you'd do if I didn't feel sorry for you and download your demos just so you could say someone did.
Thanks HotWax....
HotWax wrote:Also, I think you're a closet homo. Rounded is harder [to shave ;-)], indeed . . .
Thanks Hotwax....


I seem to have jumped the gun. It's *very* difficult to recreate the consecutive jumps when not invulnerable. I can only get 4 consecutive thrusts now before I'm too far from the wall. This is still more than 1.22, and all the other stuff about pushing harder vertically and not pushing as strongly horizontally is still true, so my question still stands. But my dreams of scaling whole walls have been dashed--unless i find a sphere. ( btw. Don't confuse this to mean don't dl my demos...Do download my demos, just know they're worthless :-) )

So a new question arises; why does godmode have an effect on splash? Shouldn't your character be moved the same way whether he's losing health for it or not?
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Post by HotWax »

Doesn't thrust force from projectiles affect the player less (at least on the horizontal plane) when the player is invurnerable? Stand in front of a group of imps and let them pelt you with fireballs, then try it while you're not immune to the damage. Maybe what's happening is the horizontal thrust coded by id is intentionally lessened, but the vertical thrust added by Randy has no such code that adjusts it -- hence the ability to scale walls since you stay near them to push yourself to the ceiling.

[EDIT]I just confirmed this. Standing outside the imp cage in E1M9 with god mode, I don't get pushed by anything -- fireballs, shotgun blasts, you name it. As soon as I turned off the cheat, I was getting pushed all around. I then warped to E2M8 and let myself get hit with a rocket -- it pushed me back several feet. Then I turned on god mode and let myself get hit -- I went exactly as far as I saw you move when you shot a wall in your demos. It looks like Randy just didn't program the vertical thrust to consider invurnerability when calculating how far to move you, while the horizontal thrust is still using the original code which does.[/EDIT]
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Post by Sticky »

HotWax wrote:I just confirmed this.
Hotwax, that was in the beta, correct?

My testing shows that there is NO (or negligible) difference in horizontal and vertical thrust--whether invulnerable or not--in 1.22; however, the beta is as you've said.

Vertical thrust is definitely stronger in the beta (than 1.22) overall, and remains constant regardless of state; however, horizontal thrust [in the beta] is diminished while invulnerable.
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Post by HotWax »

Yes, this is using version 2.0.60. However, I also distinctly remember it being this way in vanilla Doom. In addition to not taking damage, the invurn sphere let you stand still while being pelted by numerous imp fireballs and shotgun blasts. There have been lots of changes to the way splash damage and such work, so it wouldn't surprise me if Randy broke it at some point and then fixed it back up in one of the betas.
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Post by Graf Zahl »

HotWax, that is definitely NOT the case! I've tested it thoroughly. You can look in the bug thread for a technical explanation.
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Post by Sticky »

Yay! So I found my Ultimate disc (it was hiding at the back of my case amongst my images), but I don't have a clue how to get vanilla to run on my xp.
Boot to dos? Doh! Stupid Windows XP...

If only it were so easy, I could play God Of Thunder again...

Anyway, I recall that you were pushed around while invulnerable in Vanilla, but can't prove it. I am one step closer though.. I'll search the forum, I'm sure someone has asked how to do this before.
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Post by Graf Zahl »

Sticky wrote: Anyway, I recall that you were pushed around while invulnerable in Vanilla, but can't prove it. I am one step closer though.. I'll search the forum, I'm sure someone has asked how to do this before.

Sure you were pushed around. How else would it have been possible to blast yourself in the secret exit in E3M6 of Doom 1?
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Post by Enjay »

OK, so I just tried Vanilla Ultimate Doom, and using IDDQD got thrown around all over the place by the cyber demon's rockets. I don't actually care how this is resolved, I'm happy either way, but that's how it behaved with doom 1.9 anyway.
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Post by Enjay »

Graf Zahl wrote:Sure you were pushed around. How else would it have been possible to blast yourself in the secret exit in E3M6 of Doom 1?
With a lot of health you could survive the blast. Or you could just run across into the secret exit. :P
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Post by Sticky »

Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks!
(and thanks for saving me from having to go look upon the horror know as 320x200--though I was sort of looking forward to it :P )
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Post by Graf Zahl »

Enjay wrote:OK, so I just tried Vanilla Ultimate Doom, and using IDDQD got thrown around all over the place by the cyber demon's rockets. I don't actually care how this is resolved, I'm happy either way, but that's how it behaved with doom 1.9 anyway.
Look in the corresponding bug thread. I did a detailed description of the bug's cause there and IMHO it should be easily fixed. It was just some incorrectly incorporated Hexen code...
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Post by Enjay »

Indeed you did. Perhaps it might be useful if this discussion went on in one or other of these threads seeing as how they are about the same thing, and both current.

http://zdoom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1715
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