[ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Gez » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:17 pm

It works in GZDoom r1500+. I'm surprised Enjay, who compiles and uploads the development builds, didn't use one for this.

This is a "3D polyobject": you can walk above and below it (well, not below it in this case since it's placed flush to the floor) but it blocks for the height of the texture.

Enjay wrote:The polyobjects don't have a top at all. :shock:

This is the desired effect. It'd be dumb if the polyobject clipped through that beautiful 3D floor, wouldn't it?
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby CaptainToenail » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 pm

Oh wow I thought this had died for good.

Been a blast playing through it again - I have to say the Cybruisers and the Soul Harvesters are far too annoying and need nerfed.

Cybruiser - too much HP, too much damage, and his stomping hooves are annoying.

Soul Harverster - projectile homing is far too tight, how about going back to its roots as a Heretic Golem re-skin and use the default golem projectile homing properties?


Also I'm tempted to complain about the Flesh Spawn being too aggressive, those things are piss-annoying. :lol:
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Enjay » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:30 pm

Heh, I misread ChronoSeth's post about the poly's not going all the way to the sky to mean exactly the opposite of what he said. I have to say, those massively high poly-doors looked impressive in GZDoom 1.7.0. :lol: I have now checked r1505 and the polys do indeed cut off at the 3D floor as intended. Less imposing but technically more impressive.

The reason that I ran with the official rather than the SVN GZDoom is because I currently only have r1505 installed and, knowing there were custom weapons in the project, I avoided that revision for this playthrough in case the weapon deselect problem affected them. I would normally use the SVN build for... well, anything really.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby TiberiumSoul » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:46 pm

oh its about fuckin time
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Enjay » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:12 pm

Minor niggle: I found the "H" and the "N" in the small font difficult to read. They can both easily be mistaken for the letter "A".
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Xaser » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:39 pm

Hrm. I was afraid the first post wasn't going to cover the full story here. Guess I should respond to things.

This release is (and always was) intended to be a public beta, not a release candidate. There are still a few areas that could use some fixing up and there haven't been any proper full playthroughs aside from what I've done (and prolly Torm too). There should've been more indication that the first few players are gonna be a guinea pig audience of sorts. :(

All testing and development was done on ZDoom 2.6.1, so I'm not sure what the deal with the grenade issues is. I've also never seen the "bosses die" thing happen at all, so that's another bug related to something different in SVN. The tl;dr is that it's probably best to stick to 2.6.1, to avoid whatever's causing the weirdness there.

Caught a few actual issues though already. Need to figure out a way to detect when a player picks up the chaingun from a dropped enemy; that message display slipped my mind somehow. :P

[EDIT] I should also mention that the way for displaying the code (you'll know it when you see it) is also silly and needs changing. Basically a placeholder that hasn't been filled yet. :P
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Enjay » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:38 pm

Don't worry. I thought that it was perfectly clear that this was a beta and that players were "guinea pigs". I certainly played it on that basis which I why I bothered with the screenshots and bug reports.

I just tried 2.6.1 and I too cannot get the boss die thing to happen. Trying again with r4029 it happens.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby blackfish » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:48 pm

I'm going through this and there's one big pet peeve about this. Ammo. There is simply not enough. There were too many instances where more ammo could have been used. The map assumed I found a nailgun which was kind of odd considering I didn't get one until right before the hell part (and that's 40 minutes in!). The worst was when I had to deal with the mastermind and the only thing given to me was a enough plasma ammo to deal with the mastermind, but not his friends surrounding him (no, a few 5 bullet clips isn't going to do it).

tl;dr needs more ammo pickups, like the big ammo packs not just clips and shells everywhere. It's a very pretty map though.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby ChronoSeth » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:56 pm

There's a nailgun on the big rock in the first outdoor area. Most of the weapons and items aren't just thrown at the player; you have to explore a bit.

Grenades are also extremely helpful against the clusters of lesser enemies early on, not sure if you have been using them.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby blackfish » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:32 pm

ChronoSeth wrote:There's a nailgun on the big rock in the first outdoor area. Most of the weapons and items aren't just thrown at the player; you have to explore a bit.



That's all well and good, but the important items should be part of the natural playthrough rather than having to go out of the player's way. For instance, the claw room is easily ignorable at first because you're already in the mindset that you're going through a corridor so you just go through to the next room. This is bad when you're grabbing lots of ammo for a gun you simply don't have.

Also, the "boss" baddies got torn to shreds by nails and basically had no hit points.

The map certainly has its moments, but the mobs need to be evaluated to a degree whether or not the player is able to actually complete it in various scenarios. Basically, don't assume the player has a certain weapon/item unless you know that the player actually has it. Instead, give the player the necessity to deal with the threat within the room (or at the very least nearby or soon before), even if it's ammo for a gun that you know the player has.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Xaser » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:38 pm

There's definitely enough ammo total. The trouble appears to be distribution -- I always exit with a lot of leftover but I know where everything is at. Been watching Tarnsman stream through it, and he's been having troubles with ammo too, though he's been doing things in a different sequence then I usually do. Some rearranging is definitely in order at some point.

I'm not sure what else to do about the not-finding-a-weapon thing except maybe place one sooner in a spot where you can't miss it. Could be worth adding a second one right before the Angel of Death fight (i.e. right after the red door), so you can be sure that you've got one at that point.

[EDIT] Apparently the latest official GZDoom has the bosses-die-instantly bug. To repeat: The latest official GZDoom breaks the boss fight entirely. Later ZDoom SVNs have the same problem, though ZDoom 2.6.1 will work fine.

[DOUBLE-EDIT] Bugreported the issue, so hopefully it'll be rectified.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby TiberiumSoul » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:31 pm

what the hell does one have to change to get this big bastard up and running in zandronum (id like to be able to play this alongside my mod)
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Project Dark Fox » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:35 pm

TiberiumSoul wrote:what the hell does one have to change to get this big bastard up and running in zandronum (id like to be able to play this alongside my mod)

You don't. You run it in ZDoom 2.6.1.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby XutaWoo » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:52 pm

Alternatively, Zandornum's source code.
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Re: [ZDCMP2] RC1 released (yay, it's not mordeth'd)

Postby Xaser » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:41 pm

There's no hope in making it Zandronum compatible, really, without it turning into something completely limbless. You're better off waiting for Zandronum to catch up to ZDoom's featureset, even though that might take a while.

While on the topic, multiplayer in general is currently untested but in theory it should work in co-op. Something will invariably be broken, I'm sure, but some testing on that front would definitely help. ;)
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