Brütal Doom v0.18

[Hellser]

Umm... SgtMKIV... When I meant Pistols... I meant a pistol with the power of the Pistol from Halo 1...

Uh, no. Did you know that the pistol from Halo 1 was actually meant to be weaker? A programmer forgot to lower the damage value of the pistol. Which is why 'it packs a punch'. In terms of canon; Halo 3's pistol (same model) is weak.

[Zero X. Diamond]

Yeah, Zaero, seriously. You want a mod like that? Brutal Doom isn't it. It's nothing like the shit you keep describing. To redo it to feature the shit you're asking for would take a lot of work that's just unnecessary when the arsenal's already been so well balanced. If you really must have your Crysis suit bullshit, here's an idea: make it yourself and quit asking somebody to put it into an existing mod where it wouldn't fit thematically and would completely change the existing gameplay of said mod.

[Zombieguy]

Yeah, Zaero, seriously. You want a mod like that? Brutal Doom isn't it. It's nothing like the shit you keep describing. To redo it to feature the shit you're asking for would take a lot of work that's just unnecessary when the arsenal's already been so well balanced. If you really must have your Crysis suit bullshit, here's an idea: make it yourself and quit asking somebody to put it into an existing mod where it wouldn't fit thematically and would completely change the existing gameplay of said mod.

Agreed.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

The only way I can think of a pistol fitting into the BD arsenal is an infinite ammo, piss weak backup ranged weapon a la Quake 2's blaster but it would still be a silly addition to the arsenal that way.

And even by this way, it would ruin everything, because infinite pistol would be ultra-unrealistic, make fists and chainsaw useless, and would completely remove the "survival" atmosphere.


Guys, seriously, forget the pistol! It's never going to happen!

Look, I don't want to look rude, or anything like it, but...

No. Seriously, NO!

Was worth the try anyway.

Well, seriously guys. You are trying to hit the same button that has been fixed months ago!
The current arsenal has been tested, refined, rebalanced, and elaborated over 2 years. There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to throw everything from the window, and start a whole new arsenal with every weapon having a different tacticool alt fire, Crysis 2 stuff, and shit like that.

And again, the Pistol again? Why it again?
Somebody answer me: Why should I add a weapon that NOBODY WILL EVER ACTUALLY USE IT BECAUSE ITS WEAKER AND SLOWER THAN ANYTHING ELSE, AND USES THE SAME AMMO OF STRONGER WEAPONS?

First I would like to state, that the thing I really love about your mod is the usefullnes of guns. I simply cannot play without your mod, thats why I posted the ideas here. So great respect for the choice you've made.

Now about my ideas: please take a note that there are not many new weapons I propose: just some dark magic stuff. All the others already exists in your mod.
The crisis stuff is for a sake of item replacements which is for a sake of unnerfed Doom1 gameplay mostly. Why the fans of D2 have to play the nerfed Doom 1, just becouse it was released earlier. Now, with ZDoom we have all the tools to improve it!

Ok, now the "pistol" question:
You are right Mark than pistol is just weaker than any other weapon. On the other side: its classic!
I recommend to tweak the first, and respect the latter, so my ideas are:
-It's possible to dual wield pistols (considering pistol clip is 20 rounds (like Rifle), two of them are worth 40 shots of continued fire, 2x the rifle). 20 clip unreailistic maybe? See FiveSeven on Wiki.
-no recoil (can be used over chasms etc, without the risk of falling down)
-optional: if they're still too weak - make them silenced! For ex. "internally suppressed". This will allow them to be used in the very same cases as fists.
-my motto is: "Most content improved, no content removed"

I want to be clear: I don't want to force my point of view, just want to explain that those ideas took some real good amount of thinking.
I have a great respect for your work Mark, just wanted to make it even better.

ps. Can wait for 0.16.

I understand it, I know you are trying to help, but a pistol is classic, but not necessary. Yes, it's possible to put 20 rounds in a pistol, but not 20 x 7.62 rounds. If you could use the silenced pistol, then why would you need to use the fists? And my motto is: "More content is not equal to better content"

[RV-007]

Have the pistol as a MAC-10. It will be shooting all over the place, lol. In a more serious suggestion, the pistol could have a secondary fire mode which restricts the player's movement to a certain distance, but the player will move much faster. This is good for hiding behind pillars or walls w/ the exception of facing rockets or melees. It's just an idea to try to make the pistol more useful, but whatevers. I rather not face a stampede of demons (especially from my dumb doom2 monsters wad) w/ a pistol and a pillar.

Other suggestions could include that the possessed (zombiemen, shotgunguys, chaingunguys, and wolfensteinss) could take cover behind things and watch for any passing players before firing rounds at the current target. Another suggestion is to make the possessed be able to radio contact each other upon alert. I always imagined the shotgunguys from E1M1 calling for backup (and saying, "*radio noises* I need backup!") and the other guys start rushing the player (e.g. possessed running thru the first door for a fire fight while the first shotgunguy group try to defend the armor.

[Zaero]

"Classic"? Since when is the idea of a battle suit "classic"? Seriously, there is a good reason why Mark_IV did the weapons and gunplay as they are. Following along with what he said, are you really asking him to throw out all that hard work just to put in some "tacticool" Halo/Call of Duty horseshit? If you honestly want gameplay like that in Doom, try Project MSX.

And on the subject of a pistol (yes, this even applies to the magnum, Desert Eagle, Beretta M92FS, etc.) in Brutal Doom, it has been brought up and answered numerous times. It will not happen. Not now, not anytime soon, not ever. Hope that's been cleared up (for the umpteenth time).

Since when? Since its based on Doom powerups ONLY. This means no Crisis stuff like throwing enemies like dolls or running faster than a train. So it's no Halo/CoD/Crysis mumbo-jumbo, just Doom powerups packed into 3 "modes". The reason for the whole Suit idea was explained numerous times. I tried MSX and personally don't like it exactly becouse it's like modern shooters.
As for the pistol and all the other things I think Mark is the only person to judge what is going to be released or not.

Yeah, Zaero, seriously. You want a mod like that? Brutal Doom isn't it. It's nothing like the shit you keep describing. To redo it to feature the shit you're asking for would take a lot of work that's just unnecessary when the arsenal's already been so well balanced. If you really must have your Crysis suit bullshit, here's an idea: make it yourself and quit asking somebody to put it into an existing mod where it wouldn't fit thematically and would completely change the existing gameplay of said mod.

I'm not asking anybody to do the stuff I described. I just posted the list of ideas which can be taken into consideration or not.
Not interested in those features apart from Brutal Doom, cuz I love the mod and cannot play without it.
I'm not going to do this myself since I currently lack the skills and Mark's permission to do so.

And seriously, I must disagree with statement that my ideas will "completely change the existing gameplay of said mod", simply cuz they are not so drastic. Please quit the Crysis-psychosis and analize the ideas without emotion. There is not much brand new stuff there - alternations/tweaks mostly.

Yes, it's possible to put 20 rounds in a pistol, but not 20 x 7.62 rounds. If you could use the silenced pistol, then why would you need to use the fists? And my motto is: "More content is not equal to better content"

"it's possible to put 20 rounds in a pistol, but not 20 x 7.62 rounds" - Agreed.
But it's absolutely possible for clip size reasons to have a pistol with at least 20 5.7 rounds in clip. You said about 7.62 caliber.. This is mostly used in non full auto rifles, so since mod's Rifle is full auto I think it would be lower caliber. You can say that your rifle is an automatic variant of 7.62 like AK-47, but damage nor kickback are suitable then (IMHO).

Why fists then? Becouse they don't need ammo and can be berserk-enhanced of course! So pistol/s would be only weapon for long-range stealth combat (balanced or not? Judge yourself).

As with your motto: I absolutely agree! Great respect for any modder thinking this way! On the other hand more content doesn't mean worst content - the way for each feature is to be well revised.

ps. When will 0.16 be released?

[RV-007]

For suits, I think that's like Half-Life, which I do not like. That's for like BattleTech robots.

Spoiler: Visual example of BattleTech robots

Very clunky.

For pistols, I wouldn't really say that they are long-range or stealth weapons. A sniper rifle (or rocket launcher) would probably be more suitable for the job. To me, pistols are more for picking off the possessed behind cover. Either way, I enjoy rocket or tommy gun ambushing as much as gun dueling Wild West style.

What I perceive from the earlier posts is that there is some demand to adhere to the classic/original doom gameplay. Brutal Doom basically adds more emphasis on brutality as the appeal of doom. I think the main focus was to make doom as brutal as possible.

I got another suggestion. How about making an usable item that costs a chainsaw, a chaingun, and all available bullets to make a dumb-fire anti-aircraft machine-gun turret? The idea is for when the player need to disperse as much rate of fire (pain/stun state spam) against a crowd w/o getting shot (b/c the player is low on health). The gun turret cannot be targeted or destroyed, but it could hurt any object and it breaks itself no returns on chainsaw, chaingun, and bullets once the last bullet is spent. There is no returns on chainsaw, chaingun, and bullets.

[DOOMGuy007]

If you really want an solution for the Pistol issue...

Just make the Pistol LOOK like a Berreta M92FS touched up by you (SgtMKIV) and give it the fucking power of a Desert Eagle. Yeah, that's right a God damn Desert Eagle. It will be an extremely modified Berreta M92FS in terms of peformance (Not looks) so it can pack a punch. You know what I mean?

[Whiteace]

If you really want an solution for the Pistol issue...

Just make the Pistol LOOK like a Berreta M92FS touched up by you (SgtMKIV) and give it the kek'n power of a Desert Eagle. Yeah, that's right a God damn Desert Eagle. It will be an extremely modified Berreta M92FS in terms of peformance (Not looks) so it can pack a punch. You know what I mean?

How about you stop posting please, then everyone will be happy and we can all move on.

[Gothic]

PISTOL IS DEAD

THE
END

[terranova]

Honestly, when you can carry around one metric ton of equipment, i don't think you'd bother with a pistol.

[Mike12]

PISTOL IS DEAD

BUT THEN WHO WAS PHONE?!?!?!

...Sorry.


But yeah, the arsenal really is fine the way it is. The things being asked for here do not fit the concept of Brutal Doom in the slightest.

[wildweasel]

The primary usage of a pistol is as a backup weapon for when all other weapons are empty, or for close-quarters combat when your primary weapons are too unwieldy in enclosed spaces. Since Doom doesn't exactly have handling for weapon length or maneuverability, you might as well just use the rifle.

[RV-007]

The primary usage of a pistol is as a backup weapon for when all other weapons are empty, or for close-quarters combat when your primary weapons are too unwieldy in enclosed spaces. Since Doom doesn't exactly have handling for weapon length or maneuverability, you might as well just use the rifle.

If the monsters can disarm the player, then the player can wield the (auto-) pistol and start firing against player death.
Sample code for weapon disarmament (from a WIP star-spawn_for_rylayeh_v02 pwad), but not like the pistol is brutal (-ly helpful) enough.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all • Expand view

// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#FLOAT
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#SEEKERMISSILE
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#RANDOMIZE
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#NOTARGET
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#BLOODLESSIMPACT
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#NOEXPLODEFLOOR
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#PIERCEARMOR
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Actor_flags#FORCEPAIN
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/A_SeekerMissile
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_Jump
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_HideThing
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_UnHideThing
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:RevenantTracer
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:PowerMorph
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:MorphProjectile
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:EggFX
ACTOR Feebleness_Curse_Projectile //_Projectile : MorphProjectile //native
{
   Game Doom
   SpawnID 131 //T_PUFF
   Radius 10
   Height 10
    Speed 10
    FastSpeed 20
    DamageFactor "Cthulhu", 1
   Damage 1
   Projectile
   -ACTIVATEIMPACT
   -ACTIVATEPCROSS
   +FLOAT
   +SEEKERMISSILE
   +RANDOMIZE
   +NOTARGET
   +BLOODLESSIMPACT
   +NOEXPLODEFLOOR
   +PIERCEARMOR
   +FORCEPAIN

   //MorphProjectile.PlayerClass "AccursedZombieManPlayer"
   //MorphProjectile.MonsterClass "ZombieMan"
   //MorphProjectile.Duration 150
   //MorphProjectile.MorphStyle MRF_FAILNOLAUGH|MRF_WHENINVULNERABLE|MRF_LOSEACTUALWEAPON
   //MorphProjectile.MorphFlash classname
   //MorphProjectile.UnMorphFlash classname
   
   SeeSound "skull/melee" // "skeleton/attack"
   DeathSound "skeleton/tracex"
   RenderStyle Add // Translucent
   
   States
     {
   Spawn:
      BBRN A 2 bright A_SeekerMissile (0, 90, SMF_LOOK|SMF_PRECISE, 256, 100) // Added In // A_Tracer   // See RevenantTracerSmoke
      //BBRN A 2 bright A_HideThing
      loop
   Death:
      BBRN A 8 bright
      BBRN B 6 bright A_SpawnItemEx ("Feebleness",0,0,0,10,0,-10,0,SXF_NOCHECKPOSITION,0)
      BBRN A 4 bright
      BBRN B 5 bright // Whole Line Added In
      stop
   }
}

// http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_Print
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:PowerupGiver
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:Inventory
// http://www.zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:RadSuit
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/Classes:CustomInventory
// http://zdoom.org/wiki/A_DropInventory
ACTOR Feebleness : CustomInventory //PowerupGiver //8002
{
   //Game Hexen
   //SpawnID 13
   Inventory.Amount 0
   +INVENTORY.AUTOACTIVATE
   +INVENTORY.ADDITIVETIME
   +FLOATBOB
   -COUNTITEM
   +INVENTORY.PICKUPFLASH
   +RANDOMIZE
   //Inventory.Icon ARTISPED
   Inventory.PickupMessage "You feel too feeble to hold onto weapons." //"$TXT_ARTISPEED" // "BOOTS OF SPEED"
   //Powerup.Type Feebleness
   /*
   The attributed PowerUp will have to have the name "Power(string_of_Powerup.Type)".
   */
   RenderStyle None //Normal
 
   States
   {
   Spawn:
      //SPED ABCDEFGH 3 Bright
          PUFF ABCD 3 bright
          Stop //Loop
       PickUp:
          PUFF A 1 bright A_Print("You feel too feeble to hold onto your weapons.")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("BFG9000")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("PlasmaRifle")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("RocketLauncher")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("ChainGun")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("SuperShotgun")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("Shotgun")
          PUFF A 3 bright A_DropInventory ("Pistol")
          Stop
   }
}

[SigFloyd]

Umm... SgtMKIV... When I meant Pistols... I meant a pistol with the power of the Pistol from Halo 1...

Uh, no. Did you know that the pistol from Halo 1 was actually meant to be weaker? A programmer forgot to lower the damage value of the pistol. Which is why 'it packs a punch'. In terms of canon; Halo 3's pistol (same model) is weak.

I assumed it was a reference to the Marathon series, where the pistol was actually quite powerful and remained useful throughout the game.