Regarding 3D floors

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Regarding 3D floors

Postby Doom Juan » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:05 am

Are there limitations as to how many you can have on a level? Is it best to use them sparingly, or can one use them to create objects such as tables and chairs without much of a drainage on the system?
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby mallo » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:03 am

You can have as much 3d floors as you want, but I don't know is they're stable when you have, like, 500 on one level.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Nightfall » Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:47 am

3d floors tend to be pretty CPU-intensive in the software renderer, so ideally you should use them sparingly. It's a different thing under the OpenGL renderer (GZDoom), where you can use 3d floors liberally.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby ReX » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:50 pm

Doom Juan wrote:... can one use them to create objects such as tables and chairs ....

If you're developing your project for GZDooM, you should consider using models for commonly-found objects, such as tables and chairs. Models are easy to use, don't drain your computer's resources noticeably more than comparable 3D sectors, and look a whole lot better. Also, as you get to using more complex structures, you'll find that using 3D sectors becomes increasingly cumbersome.

This is an example of models used where using 3D sectors alone would have been a nightmare.

This is an example of 3D sectors used because a suitable model was not available. It was extremely cumbersome to build, but looks half-way decent.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Doom Juan » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:05 pm

ReX wrote:
Doom Juan wrote:... can one use them to create objects such as tables and chairs ....

If you're developing your project for GZDooM, you should consider using models for commonly-found objects, such as tables and chairs. Models are easy to use, don't drain your computer's resources noticeably more than comparable 3D sectors, and look a whole lot better. Also, as you get to using more complex structures, you'll find that using 3D sectors becomes increasingly cumbersome.

This is an example of models used where using 3D sectors alone would have been a nightmare.

This is an example of 3D sectors used because a suitable model was not available. It was extremely cumbersome to build, but looks half-way decent.


Now you've opened a can of worms :)

I had not intended for my project to be on Gzdoom, until I discovered that a certain piece of architecture I had been working on was working faster in Gzdoom as opposed to laggy Zdoom - could you give me all the relative information regarding models? What do I need to make them, how do I make them and implament them?
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby wildweasel » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:37 pm

If you plan to use models to improve performance for ZDoom users, you'll unfortunately need to toss that idea out (in the traditional sense) as regular ZDoom does not handle MD2/MD3/etc. models. It does, however, handle voxel models, which have a quite different logic to them, so someone more experienced will probably need to chime in here...
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Gez » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:25 pm

Models have their own issues, though. Especially large models used as architecture pieces. Most importantly:

  • Models only appear if the sector containing their actor is in sight. This is critical because quite often, a model will "flow" out of its containing sector. Fortunately, Doom allows sectors to be discontinuous, so you can cheat with the map geometry to some extent; but it's an extra hassle nonetheless.
  • Models are lit like actors, not like map geometry. This can make it hard to blend a model seamlessly in the map geometry.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Kappes Buur » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:42 pm

Doom Juan wrote:... What do I need to make them, how do I make them and implament them?


To construct models, a program such as Blender, GMAX, which can export the model as MD3.
To bring models into the map it is advisable to use MaxEd's GZDoombuilder.
To have models displayed in game, you have to use the pk3 structure. Check out Rex's Paranoid.

Recently, there have been some threads concerning models, so a search should bring up some more information.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Enjay » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:26 pm

Gez wrote:
  • Models are lit like actors, not like map geometry. This can make it hard to blend a model seamlessly in the map geometry.

Even more, they are lit like XY-billboarded actors so if they are under a 3D floor, they take their lighting information from the containing sector, not the light level under the floor.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:31 pm

Doom Juan wrote:I had not intended for my project to be on Gzdoom, until I discovered that a certain piece of architecture I had been working on was working faster in Gzdoom as opposed to laggy Zdoom - could you give me all the relative information regarding models? What do I need to make them, how do I make them and implament them?

If you are committed to using ZDooM (instead of GZDooM), forget about using models for now; ZDooM does not yet support them. If you want to use models, pick GZDooM.

As for your other questions, my suggestion is that you avoid trying to construct your own models for now. However, if you wish to learn the basics of model creation, people like Enjay and Nash on these forums have a great deal of experience. My recommendation is that you find an already-developed model on the Internet (there are plenty of sites with free, downloadable models) that suits your needs. You'll need the graphics for the model, the model itself (typically in .md2 or .md3 format, which has all relevant information connecting the model to the graphics), a Model Definition, and a DECORATE definition. As soon as you're ready to begin your journey into the world of models, begin asking questions here.

Kappes Buur wrote:To have models displayed in game, you have to use the pk3 structure. Check out Rex's Paranoid.

I'm flattered that Paranoid is associated with me. However, it was actually the product of the hard work and innovation of a team of people, collectively known as The Persecution Complex.
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby mallo » Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:46 am

@UP: How could you know? Maybe He's advanced 3D modeller right now... :)
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Re: Regarding 3D floors

Postby Enjay » Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:31 pm

mallo wrote:@UP: How could you know? Maybe He's advanced 3D modeller right now... :)

Unlikely.
Doom Juan wrote:could you give me all the relative information regarding models? What do I need to make them, how do I make them and implament them?

;)
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