Question about an anti-cheat system

[ibm5155]

Hey so, i did an anti-cheat system for my map and and almost noone of the cheats will work xD

But i want to know about you guys what did you think about that, should i remove it?
My map have two difficult ways, the first is the easy and the hard one is the ultra violence and nightmare, i think on putting just the anti-cheat on ultra violence and nightmare....

So shoul i use it or is better not to use it?

[Hellser]

Skill definition

Couldn't you just use the 'DisableCheats' for Mapinfo?

[ibm5155]

hmm but if someone do sv_cheats true wouldn´t disable it?

[Enjay]

With cheats disabled, the moment I find myself stuck because of a map bug or whatever, I'll quit and throw the map in the recycle bin.

Just leave me to play how I want to play. Don't force your preferences on me. If I don't want to cheat, I won't cheat. If I want, or need, to cheat, I'd like to be able to, thank you very much.

Anyway, I'm intrigued as to how you think you have managed to eliminate the ability to cheat in ZDoom. I bet there are still plenty of things that can be done even with your cheat prevention measures in place.

[ibm5155]

actually i check if the player have some weapon that he shouldn´t have, if he pass by some wall that shoudln´t pass and if the actor is flying xD
i didn´t eliminated it, at least the god mode i don´t know how to check =/, but you instant kill by walls if the system see something different xD

Well so I´ll just leave it to the nightmare mode, the rest is free cheating =D
EDIT:NO BUGS ON THAT MAP >.< I´m hard testing all the crazy things that should happen, at least you play on multiplayer, because the map wasn´t planed to this...

[Vaecrius]

I'm pretty sure having everything and anything do 1000000+ damage should be able to get you around god mode.

EDIT: Buddha mode too. And yes, in all seriousness disabling cheats in singleplayer is bad and every game should have a "skip to the interesting shit" function.

[Enjay]

Buddha? Give health? "Summon [insert health giving item here]"?

[scalliano]

Basically what Enjay said. Disabling cheats mod-side is incredibly risky, and you had better make damn sure your maps don't contain any errors. The same goes for nag-messages bitching at the player and/or obstructing their view because their global settings aren't exactly what you want them to use. That's usually an insta-nuke in my book and was one of my biggest gripes with Spawn. Vital doors which didn't work when they were supposed to, illogical puzzles and no real sense of direction all under the ever-so-player-friendly banner of SV_CHEATS=0. I'm surprised I stuck it out to the end.

In short, it's a bad idea, ditch it.

[Hellser]

I agree with these guys. In singleplayer, one should never disable the player of using cheats. We use them for a reason. To debug, or to test. Or for the players who aren't skillfully incline to play DooM as we do. When I was getting used to the WSAD method for moving around, I had to resort to God Mode as a sort of 'safety blanket'.

[ibm5155]

Well, so I´ll leave it only on nightmare so xD, it´s just a single map and i don´t think bugs are going to be there

[XutaWoo]

i don´t think bugs are going to be there

No developer does.

Well, game breaking bugs, anyway. It's pretty dumb to be a developer and expect there to be absolutely no bugs at all.

[Vaecrius]

To add to Hellser's reasons, don't forget the "get to the good stuff" factor... sometimes you might play a map because you're told there's something interesting at the end, or there are some great visuals or music or plot (okay probably not plot usually), but there's a lot of repetitive fluff (50-revenant monster closets, etc.) or the map layout is confusing or deliberately blocks you off from interesting prior stuff you want to look at again. And the older you get, the less able you are to adjust your time commitments to be able to play through or replay the game just to look at that stuff and if you don't cheat it goes to waste.

[Kinsie]

I do wish there was a way for ACS to detect a player's cheat flags, so that scripts could adapt to avoid issues with certain cheat codes (for example, a death pit that just teleports you somewhere else if you're in God Mode so you don't get stuck).

I'd have a look into writing a patch to add such support, but I know exactly what would happen if I did.

[FDARI]

hmm but if someone do sv_cheats true wouldn´t disable it?

If "someone do sv_cheats true" you should respect that. Their computer. Their time. Their fun. If you can disable cheats by mapinfo, then that's the best way to do it, the easiest way, the most efficient, and the only decent way.

I'm gonna get as gruff as Graf about this...

Spoiler: Rant

People use cheats for their own purposes. For the longest time, I played Hideous Destructor with an extra file to replace one of the enemies (killer barrel) with the original (passive) barrel. Why? Because the madness of it didn't match the mood I felt when playing it.

People will adjust their gaming experience according to their own desires and preferences. Anything you publish, they can wreck (adjust to something you did not intend). Make a movie; they'll write fanfics (and explore their dirty desires while they're at it). When it's out there, it isn't just yours anymore, no matter how much you want it to be. Only the game you play is exclusively yours. And as I am trying to suggest, this applies to anything and anybody, not just zdoom projects. Make a new device. (iPhone, iPad, GameBoy.) Restrict / block / omit a useful or desirable feature. People will, in spite of "agreeing" not to, remove these restrictions and create the device they want.

Just... Let us play. Don't put such a load of work into crippling the product. There is nothing to be lost from allowing us to do it whatever way we choose. Most people, myself inclusive, will play without cheats until we find a problem that ruins the game. When we encounter that problem, we either scrap the game or apply a solution, be it a cheat, a mod or a bugfix. (Or we inform you and hope that you will fix the problem. Or we fix it ourselves AND inform you.)

So... The mapinfo thing... seems alright. Because it can easily be countered. Because we can still, if we really want to, have reasonably easy access to the features that we might choose to make use of.

Not that gruff yet.

I can understand Kinsie's wish, but there are two problems: 1) It could be abused for easily horrible anti-cheat measures; 2) It would still be really hard to account for the cheats. Once you cheat, you depart from the provided path, and it would be unreasonable to expect the game (mod, map, anything) to function as intended by the creator.

Since cheaters should take care of their own cheating, it is not needed, and as an unneeded feature it is bloat. You could always use hexen-style crushers, or use lines with specials to make sure that the player either loses health or leaves, but in my opinion, the cheater should NOCLIP, step back, unNOCLIP and time the run better. If that is not feasible, the game should probably be loaded from a point where the cheat has not caused any discernible corruption.

[NeuralStunner]

(for example, a death pit that just teleports you somewhere else if you're in God Mode so you don't get stuck)

Wait a tic, if they're still alive, send them to safety. (I'm assuming by "death pit" you mean "insta-death pit".)