[Fixed] [ZDBSP] Build insanely huge maps?

[Nash]

[EDIT] Previous thread was titled "build maps with more than 16384 linedefs" - I've changed it because ZDBSP obviously can already do it.

Old post follows:

Spoiler:

ZDBSP will fail to build maps with more than 16384 linedefs, eventhough DoomBuilder can save the map just fine.

If you're wondering, "why would anyone make maps with more than 16384 linedefs anyway"... I recently hit the limit while working on my random dungeon generator mod thingy.

You see, the "cells" in the dungeon consist of a grid array of square 128x128 sectors. With a dungeon size of 128x128, it would total up to 65536 linedefs (1 sector uses 4 linedefs. 4 * (128 * 128) = 65536) and attempting to build the map will crash ZDBSP. :(

I've limited my dungeon size to 100 x 100 for now. It's rather small - it is okay for the first few levels but as the player goes deeper, I'd like the maps to increase in size as well...

I know it sounds a little too specific for my purposes but... I don't think it's wrong to prepare for the eventuality of someone legitimately making a map that uses more than 16384 linedefs... hey who knows? In future as computers get stronger, there will be people who'll find ways to hit limits...

[Graf Zahl]

Uh, what?

I've build nodes for maps much larger than 16384 linedefs (the largest non-UDMF map I remember was 35000 linedefs and the largest UDMF map even larger) and they always worked fine. Do you have a map that doesn't build?

[Nash]

Try editing the map from viewtopic.php?f=19&t=25592 and copy/pasting all of the 10000 sectors and try to build with ZDBSP...

(Depending on your computer, you might not even make it past copy and pasting in DB2 - mine took about 1 minute to successfully paste. Unfortunately in the end, ZDBSP can't build the map. DB2 still saves the map, however)

[Graf Zahl]

Can you please post a map that causes problems without having to mess around with an editor?

I don't have DB2 installed on my main machine and have no desire to do so because I don't map.

[XutaWoo]

Wait, UDMF maps have to be compiled? I thought the engine just read the TEXTMAP.

[InsanityBringer]

you still need the BSP trees. They *can* be autogenerated but that's no different than just building them externally

[Ceeb]

I never build nodes for my UDMF maps and they behave just fine.

Then again, on a massive scale like that, it may slow the engine down considerably...

[Zippy]

I never build nodes for my UDMF maps and they behave just fine.

That's because when you load it up in ZDoom, it looks at the map and sees that it doesn't have nodes so it builds them (since it can't run the map without them. All you're doing is taking one of your mapmaker steps and shoving it off on the end user, for the worse. ZDoom will just build whatever the default node settings are, instead of whatever optimized custom settings are better for the map.

In other words, for any release version of your map, build nodes.

[Graf Zahl]

It all depends on the size. If the node build takes less than half a second on an average system it's not necessary because the end user won't ever notice.

But for larger maps building nodes is more or less necessary for release.

[Ceeb]

Yeah, and my maps aren't terribly complex. I'm not a linedef whore.

Besides that, DB2 -never- seems to "refresh" the nodes after it builds them the first time, so, frak them, I let GZDoom handle it when I run the map.

[Xaser]

I've actually found that it's sometimes desirable to not include nodes for the simple reason that the internal nodebuilder builds them better than the external ZDBSP does, almost every time. At least, I still haven't found the correct settings to get ZDBSP to build nodes in the exact same way that ZDoom internally does.

I very nearly didn't include nodes on my most recent 'release' (Continuum of Discord, the ZDWars Map -- you can see the problem on the GvH version too) for this reason alone. Every combination of ZDBSP settings I've tried refuses to clean up several slimetrails, yet when I enable gennodes and load the map again, it always looks just fine.

Granted, this isn't much of an excuse to not include the nodes if it's possible to build them right, but the correct way to do it is incredibly elusive.

[Graf Zahl]

To get the same as the internal node builder you need to create compressed nodes. The regular node format lacks the necessary precision to eliminate all slime trails.

A particularly extreme case I encountered was with Super Sonic Doom. Some of the maps were completely glitched with normal nodes due to some overlapping linedefs. With compressed nodes they were fine so that's what the WAD got released with.

[Xaser]

I wish that was the case, but adding the -z option didn't solve the problem when I tried it -- a bit frustrating since I remembered this discussion coming up before and that was the suggested solution (which for whatever reason is not working).

[Nash]

I'm not ignoring this thread; I'll get around to putting together the test map. Currently DB2 keeps crashing when I try to construct it... I'll figure it out later; I'm currently occupied with coding the dungeon generator...

[Nash]

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/file ... CqC/lol.7z

I chose 7Zip because it compresses better than ZIP. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Things: 8
Vertices: 66057
Linedefs: 131592
Sidedefs: 263176
Sectors: 65538

No nodes included because ZDBSP crashes when I try to build them. :P

Yes, I know this map is insane. But hey, you asked for a test map... :P