Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

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BFG
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by BFG »

after playing this with Dump, I played through 20 levels and really wanted to change my character, but also keep all my progress and had an idea for a future feature, where you can (if it is even possible in ZDoom) switch character in-game, and it would bring over the same health, stats and all of the weapon, ammo and item equivalents. I thought that would be quite fun to be able to play as multiple characters per map.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by DoomRater »

Johnny Tubro Turbo when? Before or after Jazz Jackrabbit?

(after. well, well after)
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by JohnnyTheWolf »

Why does the Quake Ranger's Double Shotgun only use one shell at a time, again? Honestly, it kind of makes the weapon feel underpowered.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by DoomRater »

It's still a weak weapon either way you look at it. Then again, it's not meant to be a super shotgun.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by Medicris »

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:Why does the Quake Ranger's Double Shotgun only use one shell at a time, again? Honestly, it kind of makes the weapon feel underpowered.
Because using 2 shells for 60 damage would... actually, wait. It's not like he uses shells for anything else, and you can get 100 super easily, so...

Still, using 2 shells for less damage than Doom's normal shotgun, at a way faster firing rate? Maybe not the best idea. Quake weapons already suffer from pretty low damage per ammo, he has to use a lot of it to put out the hurt compared to others. Then again, he also gets his alt ammo, so it evens out.

Speaking of, can standard shell count be reduced back to 50 from 100? IIRC it was only increased to let the firemace keep up, when it used 1 ammo per ball. It's kind of trivial to have 200 shells as Doomguy, when its ammo chewing is supposed to be a downside.

What do you guys think?
Last edited by Medicris on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by Untitled »

Medicris wrote:Speaking of, can standard shell count be reduced back to 50 from 100? IIRC it was only increased to let the firemace keep up, when it used 1 ammo per ball. It's kind of trivial to have 200 shells as Doomguy, when its ammo chewing was a downside back then.

What do you guys think?
Eh, at this point, it's kind of a Samsara staple - much like the infinite ammo pistols, I feel this could be made into a cvar - that and shells are definitely absurdly common to have it max at 50/100 :V (also, 100 being a multiple of both 4 and 20 makes my inner self happy, of which 50 is not)

But you know the Samsara answer to everything: MAKE IT A CVAR BECAUSE FEETURZZZ

EDIT: Appending post to effectively make a few more suggestions:
From Changelog wrote:- Chex LAZ Device: No more projectile reflectivity, radius has been halved. This may be walked back to a different nerf. We'll see.
I understand that the LAZ device was somewhat overpowered, but please, I'd recommend just nerfing the main blast damage - the whole shield mechanic was half of the fun AND the unique-ness of the weapon, being the only defensively-oriented Slot 7. As it is, the main fire is basically a fancy rocket launcher, so nerfing one of the few unique parts is kind of sad.
Also, no more reflectivity means that it fails to protect against splash damage (specifically rockets), and considering that cyberdemons are one of the few monsters you'd actually use the LAZ against...
As is, there's no point to really using the shield function anymore, which is shame, because that's one of the few things that made the LAZ device a unique weapon - it was defensively oriented, something that no other weapon (I think) does.

Also, I'd recommend buffing the Super Large Zorcher just a tiny tiny bit (in coop, the numbers are okay for DM). Here's some numbers for why:
-It deals, on average (experimentally tested against a couple cyberdemons), 257.875 (full range I could find experimentally was 173-307, too lazy to find standard deviation) damage per shot. For a shell weapon, that's good, but it take 4 shells to fire, which means that it's dealing, per shell, 64.46875 damage, an inefficiency only beaten by Ranger and Security Officer's Slot 2 weapons. For a Slot 3, that's not exactly good, though in Doom shell ammo is plentiful enough this isn't really much of a problem.
-The main issue: it's DPS is abysmal. It takes 107 tics to fire, the longest fire rate of any weapon in Samsara (Except maybe the WMC, and that's a Slot VII). Doing some math reveals it has a DPS of approximately 84. 84 damage per second makes it the weakest Slot 3 in all of Samsara (seriously). For a weapon that's not incredibly situational (a la Fusion Pistol), that's kind of bad. For a weapon that's in the slot of the Super Shotgun (137 DPS, currently best DPS for a shell weapon), that's terrible (as map makers tend to expect POWAR from that slot). 84 DPS makes it weaker than the following: Every Slot 4 in Samsara (except maybe the MA-75B since you can't actually hit things with that), every other slot 3 (137 for Doomguy, ~130 (varies) for Corvus, 183-255 (varies) for Parias, other 3's use rockets/cells), the Firemace (it's definitely higher but good luck calculating the DPS for that), the Frost Shards (96), A single WSTE-M5 (90) or, surprisingly enough, the Quake Double Shotgun (90).
-The bounce factor simply doesn't provide that much versatility, the way it is now. What good is a projectile bouncing back to its owner going to help? With the older bouncing, you could pull off some actually pretty neat trick shots.

EDIT #2: More suggestions!
-Using A_RadiusGive to make the the Mystic Ambit more, uh, Ambit-y.
-Full Radius Damage SPNKR explosions. You know you want to. (Technically speaking the MA-75B grenades also did this but no one cares as much.)
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by JohnnyTheWolf »

I seem to be unable to pick up Chaos Devices as Doomguy in Heretic. Is that normal?
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by Untitled »

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:I seem to be unable to pick up Chaos Devices as Doomguy in Heretic. Is that normal?
Yes. Only Corvus and Parias can pick them up (as only they can hold inventory items), as the instant teleport-upon-pickup is incredibly hindered if you don't have control of when in the level to use it.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by JohnnyTheWolf »

It seems it still counts as an item, which makes it frustrating when you are trying to get 100%.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by armymen12002003 »

Very cool the last timed i played this was when TerminusEst13 stopped working on it glad to see it's being worked on again if you want you can make a compatible patch with my wolfendoom enhanced mod
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by JohnnyTheWolf »

It seems both Corvus and Parias' melee weapons are not widescreen-friendly, as the sprites appear cut off during the attack animation.

Also, running out of ammo with the Double Shotgun or Nailgun switches me back to the Grenade Launcher, even it does not have ammunition either.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by Miru »

I've been testing this with other Id Tech 1 titles and it's compatible with Adventures of Square, but Hacx doesn't work with it at all and Action Doom 2 only kinda works (no weapon spawns). (did I ask that already?) And with all these people suggesting lesser-known FPS characters, I suggest something along the lines of Super Smash Bros. Brawl assist trophies. Call a random protagonist in and have them fight on your side until they die. And wasn't there a version 0.4 somewhere?
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by UTNerd24 »

As of the current moment, it seems that the console gets flooded with "'' is an unknown actor class" Using a stable build btw
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by Kinsie »

UTNerd24 wrote:As of the current moment, it seems that the console gets flooded with "'' is an unknown actor class" Using a stable build btw
Go to Options > Hud Options > Message Options and set Developer Message Mode to "off".

I can't fix this without either a complete rewrite of the over-convoluted weapon pickup system, which I think is safe to say isn't happening at this point, or breaking more than I fix.
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Re: Samsara - 0.3666 - World Tour

Post by UTNerd24 »

Kinsie wrote:
UTNerd24 wrote:As of the current moment, it seems that the console gets flooded with "'' is an unknown actor class" Using a stable build btw
Go to Options > Hud Options > Message Options and set Developer Message Mode to "off".

I can't fix this without either a complete rewrite of the over-convoluted weapon pickup system, which I think is safe to say isn't happening at this point, or breaking more than I fix.
Cheers.
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