[Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] v3.1 released (p204)

[Kroc]

Discovered this yesterday, and damn what a beautiful game. I love the use of 2D people in the complex 3D world. I've played the first mission now and I've got some issues to report (which I can file on github if you'd like)

• I can understand what the other player was saying about the doors, but I very much like this design choice. It keeps the world realistic, rather than having to remove 90% of the doors in the game; however discovery of the specifics is just a little too hidden. My recommendation would be to place a clipboard / poster on an unopenable door on the ground floor of HQ (ideally with the "!" marker), that would provide the description of door colours.
• When speaking to most people (but not all!), their text does not have a background and this can be hard to read with complex background scenery. This is most evident when talking to the barwoman. Being consistent with some shadowing / background to text would help.
• The game would work fine in 640x480 with only minor adjustments, and this would be more forgiving for users with integrated graphics. The mission objectives display is the only major "unreadable" element. Everything else just needs slight size/font adjustments.
• There is no themed menu-text for "multiplayer" if using Zandronum. Consider either hiding this menu (if possible), or otherwise supporting it (co-op would be amazing)
• When I run the game with gzdoom 2.2.0 or the latest development build the intro splashes (rated PG-13 &c.) do not fade in and are barely visible
• I got thrown for a while during the training section by not realising I could use the grenade "dispenser". I would suggest mentioning it in the instructions you get from the NPC, and ideally including a "!" marker on the dispenser
• When you press use on an NPC and they talk using the green character display at the top of the screen, it's natural to press use again to cancel/skip if you didn't intend to talk to them, but this actually restarts the message but with glitchy behaviour. tl;dr: pressing use on a talking NPC should cancel/skip the text, not restart it.
• pickup-messages appear over the NPC text; this happens often during training. DOOM's own messages should be moved elsewhere, somehow, or temporarily cover another portion of the UI. (e.g. a pop-up bar at the bottom of the screen)
• Secrets: I loathe Wolfenstein 3D's scrape-your-face-on-every-wall approach to secrets. That said, I felt there weren't enough of them, I was practically surprised that there wasn't a secret exit or hidey-hole in any of the office/bath-rooms. The two pushable walls are extremely obvious, and this is fine for one of them (to demonstrate the concept), though I feel one should be better disguised via texture -- e.g. pipes or electrical panel, that factors in the indent lip into the texture to better mask it.
• The game is 'broken' out-of-the-box on a default fresh gzdoom install. Lack of mouse-look breaks the sniper training badly. Please consider pre-setting a lot of the gzdoom environment where you can / using an autoexec.cfg, but also providing a "starter pack" of engine+game in one package so that people wanting to play can just run an executable and have the game configured sensibly and working.

edit: listify

[Tormentor667]

@Kroc - Thanks kindly for your feedback, I commented the list directly below and I am looking forward to your feedback.

• I can understand what the other player was saying about the doors, but I very much like this design choice. It keeps the world realistic, rather than having to remove 90% of the doors in the game; however discovery of the specifics is just a little too hidden. My recommendation would be to place a clipboard / poster on an unopenable door on the ground floor of HQ (ideally with the "!" marker), that would provide the description of door colours. T667: Good suggestion, just added something to the INTERMAP.
• When speaking to most people (but not all!), their text does not have a background and this can be hard to read with complex background scenery. This is most evident when talking to the barwoman. Being consistent with some shadowing / background to text would help.T667: The main problem here is that the dialogue system only allows displaying one graphic at once. If we display the mugshot, the semi-transparent background is gone. If we have characters without a mugshot for npcs, the background gets displayed. As long as ZDoom doesn't add a feature enabling this, we can't change it (http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53701)
• The game would work fine in 640x480 with only minor adjustments, and this would be more forgiving for users with integrated graphics. The mission objectives display is the only major "unreadable" element. Everything else just needs slight size/font adjustments. T667: What's the main problem here? The low resolution or the 4:3 aspect ratio?
• There is no themed menu-text for "multiplayer" if using Zandronum. Consider either hiding this menu (if possible), or otherwise supporting it (co-op would be amazing) T667: The menue texts are defined through MENUDEF and not through graphics. The single entries get build through the BIGFONT and the defined texts. I have no idea how to add the MULTIPLAYER menue for Zandronum without generating a graphic out of the BIGFONT and adding it to the repo. If you are interested in helping out though, feel free to share a solution. I am not used to Zandronum at all.
• When I run the game with gzdoom 2.2.0 or the latest development build the intro splashes (rated PG-13 &c.) do not fade in and are barely visibleT66/: I can't replicate this, It works fine for me in the latest version with the latest development build of GZDoom from svn.drdteam.org.
• I got thrown for a while during the training section by not realising I could use the grenade "dispenser". I would suggest mentioning it in the instructions you get from the NPC, and ideally including a "!" marker on the dispenser T667: Added exclamation marks to both dispensers
• When you press use on an NPC and they talk using the green character display at the top of the screen, it's natural to press use again to cancel/skip if you didn't intend to talk to them, but this actually restarts the message but with glitchy behaviour. tl;dr: pressing use on a talking NPC should cancel/skip the text, not restart it. T667: This is a very good suggestion, I will forward this to our programmer, maybe he can do something about it.
• pickup-messages appear over the NPC text; this happens often during training. DOOM's own messages should be moved elsewhere, somehow, or temporarily cover another portion of the UI. (e.g. a pop-up bar at the bottom of the screen) T667: Afaik, this is behaviour that can't be changed.
• Secrets: I loathe Wolfenstein 3D's scrape-your-face-on-every-wall approach to secrets. That said, I felt there weren't enough of them, I was practically surprised that there wasn't a secret exit or hidey-hole in any of the office/bath-rooms. The two pushable walls are extremely obvious, and this is fine for one of them (to demonstrate the concept), though I feel one should be better disguised via texture -- e.g. pipes or electrical panel, that factors in the indent lip into the texture to better mask it. T667: Thanks for the hint here as well, we will consider changing this.
• The game is 'broken' out-of-the-box on a default fresh gzdoom install. Lack of mouse-look breaks the sniper training badly. Please consider pre-setting a lot of the gzdoom environment where you can / using an autoexec.cfg, but also providing a "starter pack" of engine+game in one package so that people wanting to play can just run an executable and have the game configured sensibly and working. T667: I agree with that, the big question though is: How can I do that? How can I predefine settings through the mod?

[Rachael]

T667: The main problem here is that the dialogue system only allows displaying one graphic at once. If we display the mugshot, the semi-transparent background is gone. If we have characters without a mugshot for npcs, the background gets displayed. As long as ZDoom doesn't add a feature enabling this, we can't change it (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53701)

I understand this frustration - but is there no way to integrate the graphics together?

T667: What's the main problem here? The low resolution or the 4:3 aspect ratio?

If anything I'd say the low resolution. I don't know if you can even do anything about this - most games assume you're running 1080p these days anyway.

T66/: I can't replicate this, It works fine for me in the latest version with the latest development build of GZDoom from svn.drdteam.org.

It sounds to me like he has GL lights off.

T667: I agree with that, the big question though is: How can I do that? How can I predefine settings through the mod?

The best way to do it is include a "wolfboa.cfg" and then include executing that as part of the "set up instructions" through the documentation on your website as well as the /idgames submission. Example: "gzdoom -file wolfboa.pk3 +exec wolfboa.cfg" - some modders include a batch file for convenience since it's quick and easy.

A lot of the settings I'd imagine you'll be changing will be non-negotiable to change in any other way.

[Gez]

There is no themed menu-text for "multiplayer" if using Zandronum. Consider either hiding this menu (if possible), or otherwise supporting it (co-op would be amazing)

Can you even run this in Zandronum, when it doesn't even work on GZDoom 2.1.x? It's chock-full of portals and other very recent features.

[TerminusEst13]

Recent versions of Zandronum have thrown out the multiplayer menu-text anyway, which makes it even more of a moot point.

[Siberian Tiger]

some modders include a batch file for convenience since it's quick and easy.

What would be the best way to tackle this while offering near zero interaction? I have seen some scripts that just blindly points to a path for the (G)ZDoom binary and blindly points to Doom2's IWAD - these types of scripts are just terrible for the end-user as they just don't work in a OOBE.

The only way - that I can see this remotely working, if the program were to ask the user two questions:

• Where is your GZDoom?
• Where is your IWADs?
  • Despite knowing that the GZDoom.ini might already be configured to point to the IWAD paths or the IWAD's might already (or logically) exists within the same directory as the GZDoom engine, there may also exists some users that use front-end programs such as ZDoom Launcher, Doom Launcher, or even Doom Explorer - for those that play multiplayer ports such as Zandronum, for example. With that, GZDoom may not even point or have easy access to the IWADs as the front end tool provides this already.

Even though these two questions shouldn't be too complicated, the CUI is just simply too intimidating for the common lusers - no matter how easy the program is in terms of user friendliness. I know the team has not made any remarks yet, but if incase they want to go towards this direction - I would like to lend a hand.

Now, I am not saying your idea is bad, but I don't know how to tackle this one efficiently and with as little user interaction as possible. Do you have some ideas or tricks that might be better?

[Rachael]

What would be the best way to tackle this while offering near zero interaction? I have seen some scripts that just blindly points to a path for the (G)ZDoom binary and blindly points to Doom2's IWAD - these types of scripts are just terrible for the end-user as they just don't work in a OOBE.

That is the price you pay for convenience. If T667 really wanted to he could include an "installer" but that would be questionable at best, because very few mods use installers, and if he did that he might start a dangerous trend where everyone starts using installers. I hate installers for mere mods and I will not use them.

The only way - that I can see this remotely working, if the program were to ask the user two questions:

• Where is your GZDoom?
• Where is your IWADs?
  • Despite knowing that the GZDoom.ini might already be configured to point to the IWAD paths or the IWAD's might already (or logically) exists within the same directory as the GZDoom engine, there may also exists some users that use front-end programs such as ZDoom Launcher, Doom Launcher, or even Doom Explorer - for those that play multiplayer ports such as Zandronum, for example. With that, GZDoom may not even point or have easy access to the IWADs as the front end tool provides this already.

Even though these two questions shouldn't be too complicated, the CUI is just simply too intimidating for the common lusers - no matter how easy the program is in terms of user friendliness. I know the team has not made any remarks yet, but if incase they want to go towards this direction - I would like to lend a hand.

Now, I am not saying your idea is bad, but I don't know how to tackle this one efficiently and with as little user interaction as possible. Do you have some ideas or tricks that might be better?

Mods that do batch files usually operate from within the user's GZDoom folder directly. I think WolfBOA might have enough assets that it could operate as its own IWAD, so finding Doom2 should not even be a concern.

[Siberian Tiger]

I'll come back to this when I am more clear headed, too much stress on the mind right now.

[Kroc]

OK, just fetched (as of this post) the latest gzdoom daily (x64-g2.3pre-141-gc68aa2b), checked out the latest wolfendoom and compiled it (wolf_boa-eebd0a9.pk3) to re-test my statements:

• I was previously playing the "wolf_boa_c1_rc1.pk3" release and I found the new game intro very moving, an exceptionally well staged design, but I'm very sad to see the 'camera flying over the map' intro has taken a step backwards. There's something about the change in music which is less connecting than before. The use of just the German speech in the background without the english parts feels much less tense ('I don't understand this, I can ignore it') and lacks a stronger sense of context. Whilst the black paint-swoosh for the credits text was a bit out of place, the red circles now are distracting and break the sense of drama by pulling attention away from the swooping map -- the very thing you're trying to present. By default, the blank HUD bar appears at the bottom of the screen and I'm wondering if you could put the credits there. Consider the in-game credits sequence in Metal Gear solid as example of very tasteful use of credits. The addition of the typewriter scene is nice and beautifully written, but there's a jarring disconnect between it and the map scene partly due to the lack of music fade-out; though with the addition of the typewriter scene can I suggest an alternative way to structure the intros: place the map scene at game-boot, before the main menu. This would flow really nicely with the intro splashes and act as a beautiful introduction to the background setting of the game, where as when you start a New Game, the typewriter scene then makes the connection between the war as a whole, and the specific story and place where this game is set. This appeals to me a much smoother game flow and would at least present a faster new-game introduction for impatient players. A "Credits" menu on the title screen would also be a handy.
• The addition of the note on the door is superb, that should save you a lot of FAQs.
• Also, how you've better managed the pace of training is an excellent addition. The grenades are difficult to judge and I feel giving the player only three is a bit too stringent. If it pleases you, consider giving the player 5 grenades to start, to allow them to miss a couple and not feel too stupid or annoyed by having to pick up more and then work out the angle again that they've twice failed already.
• Attached is a screenshot of the objectives list at 640x480. It needs to be told to display pixel-for-pixel below certain resolutions, or something like that. The objective status/complete icon also scales incorrectly.
• Some big improvements on the first map, the addition of reception desks adds a lot. There's better texture placement throughout and the secrets have been much improved, thanks.
• The gate you have to open at the end of the level is under-lit and under-decorated. When you come out of the building, having flipped the switch, you can actually miss it easily by rushing forward out of the door too quickly. Perhaps there should be some barbed wire, a light of some kind and some barracades/sandbags to 'fortify' it more.

I'll get to the subject of OOBE in my next post.

[Kroc]

Gentlemen, ask yourself this question: Is this game only for existing DOOM players or for anybody, including those who may never have played DOOM?

Existing DOOM players will have their preferred setup and will have, by necessity, a knowledge of how to load WADs and mods.
A player who is new to DOOM engines however, will have quite a hill to climb just to play something that might interest them even when DOOM itself might not.
Would a new player be pained by having a pre-configured engine and launch script included? Of course not. Would a seasoned DOOM player? No, they are perfectly capable of copying the WADs elsewhere and using them with their preferred setup, but even then a pre-configured engine still provides them of the benefit of not having a TC mess about with their every-day setup.

It would benefit yourselves and anybody, such as myself, coming along and testing GitHub builds if you included an engine in your build setup. The compiler can move the produced pk3 into the pre-configured engine's folder and you can then quickly test using the same executable that the vast majority of your players would be using too.

Hell, I'd offer to sort this out for you, I'm just as interested in a perfect OOBE as any player newbie coming from the outside would want.

[Tormentor667]

Concerning open questions

T667: The main problem here is that the dialogue system only allows displaying one graphic at once. If we display the mugshot, the semi-transparent background is gone. If we have characters without a mugshot for npcs, the background gets displayed. As long as ZDoom doesn't add a feature enabling this, we can't change it (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53701)

I understand this frustration - but is there no way to integrate the graphics together?

There is, by creating redundancies and creating mugshots that include the background graphic. Instead of having 56 small images for the mugshot, I'd also have to add another 56 large graphics including the background. Doesn't seem to be a reasonable solution for me, the feature addition should make more sense.

T667: What's the main problem here? The low resolution or the 4:3 aspect ratio?

If anything I'd say the low resolution. I don't know if you can even do anything about this - most games assume you're running 1080p these days anyway.

To be honest, 640x480 isn't something I can take care of anymore in 2016 then.

T667: I agree with that, the big question though is: How can I do that? How can I predefine settings through the mod?

The best way to do it is include a "wolfboa.cfg" and then include executing that as part of the "set up instructions" through the documentation on your website as well as the /idgames submission. Example: "gzdoom -file wolfboa.pk3 +exec wolfboa.cfg" - some modders include a batch file for convenience since it's quick and easy.

That's definitely a suggestion that would make sense for newcomers. For details let's just discuss them in the other thread Eruanna
Concerning DOOM2.WAD

Mods that do batch files usually operate from within the user's GZDoom folder directly. I think WolfBOA might have enough assets that it could operate as its own IWAD, so finding Doom2 should not even be a concern.

BoA runs with FreeDoom2
Concerning Kroc's suggestions (commented in green)

• I was previously playing the "wolf_boa_c1_rc1.pk3" release and I found the new game intro very moving, an exceptionally well staged design, but I'm very sad to see the 'camera flying over the map' intro has taken a step backwards. There's something about the change in music which is less connecting than before. T667: That's some kind of a bug I need to fix.The use of just the German speech in the background without the english parts feels much less tense ('I don't understand this, I can ignore it') and lacks a stronger sense of context.T667: The changes done here are for a certain reason: Focus. The introduction towards the mod has already been solved through Douglas' letter. In this sequence, I simply want to give the player the insight of the european battlefield and mainly let him check the credits. Whilst the black paint-swoosh for the credits text was a bit out of place, the red circles now are distracting and break the sense of drama by pulling attention away from the swooping map -- the very thing you're trying to present T667: I think that's just a matter of taste. I thought that the black swoshes didn't work well in terms of readability, so I reused the red circles from the webpage for consistency. By default, the blank HUD bar appears at the bottom of the screen and I'm wondering if you could put the credits there. T667: Can you provide screenshots here? [..] This appeals to me a much smoother game flow and would at least present a faster new-game introduction for impatient players. A "Credits" menu on the title screen would also be a handy. T667: Concerning the typewriter sequence, I don't want to add it to the TITLEMAP as I think it should be standalone, so people won't accidentally skip that. I like the Credits menue item, but honestly, who ever watches them? Integrating them to the launch is a better choice in my eyes, so people are more likely watching them.
• Also, how you've better managed the pace of training is an excellent addition. The grenades are difficult to judge and I feel giving the player only three is a bit too stringent. If it pleases you, consider giving the player 5 grenades to start, to allow them to miss a couple and not feel too stupid or annoyed by having to pick up more and then work out the angle again that they've twice failed already. T667: Added two more grenades
• Attached is a screenshot of the objectives list at 640x480. It needs to be told to display pixel-for-pixel below certain resolutions, or something like that. The objective status/complete icon also scales incorrectly. T667: As Eruanna already stated, it isn't possible to support such low resolutions. If you have problems with these resolutsion, I have my doubts that you will even be able to play maps from chapter 2 which are very resource-demanding.
• The gate you have to open at the end of the level is under-lit and under-decorated. When you come out of the building, having flipped the switch, you can actually miss it easily by rushing forward out of the door too quickly. Perhaps there should be some barbed wire, a light of some kind and some barracades/sandbags to 'fortify' it more. T667: Added light sources to the pillars of the gate.

[Siberian Tiger]

T667: I agree with that, the big question though is: How can I do that? How can I predefine settings through the mod?

The best way to do it is include a "wolfboa.cfg" and then include executing that as part of the "set up instructions" through the documentation on your website as well as the /idgames submission. Example: "gzdoom -file wolfboa.pk3 +exec wolfboa.cfg" - some modders include a batch file for convenience since it's quick and easy.

That's definitely a suggestion that would make sense for newcomers. For details let's just discuss them in the other thread Eruanna
Concerning DOOM2.WAD

Mods that do batch files usually operate from within the user's GZDoom folder directly. I think WolfBOA might have enough assets that it could operate as its own IWAD, so finding Doom2 should not even be a concern.

BoA runs with FreeDoom2

I just got my certification today - so most of my stress is gone . With that said, if you guys need my assistance - feel free to ask.

[Rachael]

Congrats, Tiger.

[Wiw]

Lovely! Certification for what?

[Kroc]

Is there a way for ZDoom to put drop-shadows on text? That might solve text clashing with the background. Or, if fonts can be alpha-blended, build some shadow into the font.

I can understand you don't want to mess with 640x480 and that's fine, it's something I might mess around with myself. The game is GPU-bound on low-end systems -- it plays practically the same at 800 MHz as it does at 2.6 GHz. Some tuning through a custom config might smooth things out.

On to feedback;
I couldn't re-use my old save game once I switched to dev-builds so I played through the first level again to check out the recent improvements:

• A switch in the basement is green for a closed door, unlike all the others which are red for closed and green for open.
  

  

  Blade of Agony - inverted switch

• The three doors in the secret lab are all grey and one of them isn't openable but looks the same as the others. Suggest you place a "VERBOTEN" sign on the unopenable one.
• It's too easy to just hide behind the final lab door and shoot the boss and aides. I suggest not making the boss appear until you've picked up the files, and have some more scientists rush into the room then.
• In HQ, Lt.Rojas and the Jukebox have 10 options, and I'm used to using the 1-9 keys to navigate; you can't type "10". Suggest you limit the menus to 1-9, use "0" for 10 or always use "0" for the "bye" option.
• I see how you've made the locked doors more obviously colour-coded, but you could also use the wall sides and lintel around such doors to highlight the door's lock-colour too like, well, doom really.