[Beta][Cool] \m/ ~={ DEMONSTEELE }=~ \m/ - 0.9 desu~

[Cryomundus]

Honestly, I just feel that if it is a more powerful move, it should be more costly to use to justify it's power. Frame specific inputs are not something you normally do in DOOM at all, so it really feels unnatural to use.

It kinda falls under the same sort of problem the old version of GMOTA's shield had, it was to be used defensively, but in DOOM you are encouraged and trained to be very, VERY offensive, so pausing to use the shield felt very counter to how I played. It often caused me more harm than good, to the point where I ignored the power-up since it did not benefit me at all.

The problem with the supers is that I need to stop and try and time it. I have no experience in fighting games, and thus, no training in frame-inputs. So for me to even bother with them means that when I would want to, say, do a super-roundhouse kick in a hoard, I need to pause and either A) fail, eat damage, and do a normal one, or B) succeed, and eat damage anyway because I stopped to try and concentrate. It really just comes down to the fact that folks with backgrounds in fighting games will like it far more than folks that just play DOOM. DOOM doesn't really expect you to ever have to be exact, so you have no reason to have trained in it.

It just kinda seems...unnecessary at this point, to have a move that requires such specific timing that you would otherwise never actually need. I'd almost go so far as to say that even if it was included, people would never actually know it would exists, or think it's a random critical move.

[Somagu]

I would rather they stay the way they are, as they're not necessary to use, at all. Shihong has (will have*) multiple styles of play, and I don't think they need to all need to have a low learning curve for all players. Shihong has many ways to skin a cat. pun not intended

I agree that the just-frames are specific to the point of people thinking they're random, but she can still clear a group or do burst damage without them.

This all being said, I've always adored the idea of unorthodox characters and styles in games, so I'm kind of an odd one out here.

[Eric_]

As with Hae-Lin, Shihong's specials themselves are barely necessary, never mind the just frames (which I had honestly forgotten even existed). Right now the rank scaling on her sword is absurd to the point of destroying the strongest enemy in the game with just a few hits starting from F rank, and the altfire can be used to pretty effectively mop up anything that doesn't want you in its face. I've done more specials accidentally than I have intentionally, you don't need them. Specials are a crutch for when your skills fail you. It's kind of the whole point for them to be overpowered.

[comet1337_old]

choo choo, here comes the complaint train!

the aerial attack needs some kind of treshold to when it triggers
being near any kind of increase or decrease in floor height results in unwanted leg swinging where fist swinging was needed

the dodging feels 100% awkward

manual reloading isn't a thing?

are all difficulty levels set for UV spawns?

double jumping ends up being little more than a gimmick with zero air control

[TerminusEst13]

manual reloading isn't a thing?

For Shihong? Yes, manual reloading is a thing.

are all difficulty levels set for UV spawns?

Yes.

[Silentdarkness12]

Special moves are meant to be a bit of a crutch, I do agree. But a neccessary one. Because sometimes, due to the map design and enemy configuration, you aren't in a position where you'll be able to get those massive epic combos that let you cleave cyberdemons in half with two slices.

The specials are meant to fill a certain gap. The gap of the unknown.

[Turret49]

Hey, I dunno where bug reports go so I thought here was as good as any.
I found a peculiar bug in Demonsteele involving dodging (also applies to double jumping). It seems that if you dodge in mid air and land on a solid object (not the ground), you can't dodge again until you touch the actual ground as the game seems to think you're still in midair. Either way this brought my attempt to finish a map using only the "immobile" speed setting to a halt.
On a side note, dodging feels a lot more intuitive and controlled when you aren't dealing with momentum from movement screwing it up.

[TerminusEst13]

Interesting.

The reason that's being done is because of the ACS, which measures the player's Z position with the floor's Z position, and if they're equal (or the player's Z is lower Just In Case), then they're considered on the ground and the dodge counter is reset. Sprite bridges don't get along with this because the player isn't considered on the ground.
Not sure how to address this. Theoretically I could measure the player's Z momentum and check to see if they're not moving along Z at all, but that brings up a few issues in regards to A: No gravity zones, and B: That tiny single split instant when the player stops moving upwards after a jump and starts moving downwards.

[HexaDoken]

You could easily address the latter bit by only resetting the dodge counter when the player has been at zero Z movement for some time. Dodge will still not reset if you land on a sprite bridge while holding jump(you can jump off an object immediately after landing on it, while with the ground there is some delay), but it's still better than nothing.

And then somebody grabs those goddamn wings from Heretic and you get infinite dodge.

[phantombeta]

It would also break in sectors with the gravity set to 0.

[Turret49]

I get the feeling you can't use the hard-coded jump code from Hexen to check whether you've landed or not? Like, you're either unable to reference it, or if jumping is disabled the "bCanJump" check isn't used and thus would disable the abillity to dodge if you used it? I don't know much about modding, sorry.

[HexaDoken]

You pretty much can't, yeah.

That said.

It's actually weird that you can't.

This sounds like something that could be made really easily.

FEATURE SUGGESTION TIME

[sappinmahsentry]

I searched up so many things but I can't find out how people play as shihong, if they even do.

[Kaeoschassis]

Oh good, now I can say this without bumping a week-old thread.

The fact that Hae-Lin's hookshot can affect allies in co-op? That is the best thing ever, please do not ever remove it.
Seriously, my brother and I discovered this while practising in the testmap. With a little experimentation I managed to launch him completely out of sight (it sounded like he fell into the void, actually) by grabbing him with the hookshot while he was grenade-jumping and I was standing above him. It's sometimes even useful - for example, if one of you falls off a high ledge - but most of the time it's just utterly, hilariously satisfying. I actually find myself wondering how it interacts with Shihong's jetpack, now...

In other news, sorry, I don't actually know where one can obtain the build with Shihong, I figured I'd just wait 'til the release anyway.

[TerminusEst13]

I don't plan on removing it, don't worry!
Also, Shihong is not actually released yet--she's still under development, and so only on the github build. She's getting closer and closer to a functional release build, though, and only needs a few more things to go.

http://webm.host/b7323/vid.webm

Here, have a thing.