[RELEASE #4++ FINAL] 'Chaos, Uprising' for Heretic

[Ed the Bat]

RSL, I meant to ask. Is there a purpose to the 'class-specific' items, such as IAmMercenary? The only place I saw them used was in SBARINFO, which could have just as simply been done using the PlayerClass block command.

[Josh771]

As to the earlier request for being able to carry the cultists' two revolvers, I second that motion. It would be nice to be able to wield at least one revolver at a time, perhaps as another slot-2 weapon. And then perhaps leave ammo for the arbalest scarce, it being the only stealthy weapon. You could perhaps make its bolts even deadlier and make it into a tactical weapon for eliminating foes without attracting attention. Right now, it does not feel so much a specialty weapon, despite it being stealthy, as much as a fallback weapon. If we can scavenge revolvers and revolver rounds from cultists, then we have a new noisy fallback weapon and must be diligent about keeping our deadly arbalest loaded for those times when we feel discretion is necessary.

[rsl]

RSL, I meant to ask. Is there a purpose to the 'class-specific' items, such as IAmMercenary? The only place I saw them used was in SBARINFO, which could have just as simply been done using the PlayerClass block command.

Good point. In fact, the only reason preventing me to remove/replace these items at the moment is that I might leverage them a bit more extensively if I go for an augmented class differentiation.

As to the earlier request for being able to carry the cultists' two revolvers, I second that motion. It would be nice to be able to wield at least one revolver at a time, perhaps as another slot-2 weapon. And then perhaps leave ammo for the arbalest scarce, it being the only stealthy weapon. You could perhaps make its bolts even deadlier and make it into a tactical weapon for eliminating foes without attracting attention. Right now, it does not feel so much a specialty weapon, despite it being stealthy, as much as a fallback weapon. If we can scavenge revolvers and revolver rounds from cultists, then we have a new noisy fallback weapon and must be diligent about keeping our deadly arbalest loaded for those times when we feel discretion is necessary.

At this point, I heavily second this proposal I had already started trying out new altfire functions here and there, but TBH the resulting layout was coming out a bit unsatisfying to me - the arsenal would become a bit "polluted", both graphically and functionally. Ditching altfires and introducing a revolver would make the set truly complete and assign a better niche to the arbalest itself - a weapon that I first conceived as slightly different, role-wise.
This is something I shall decidedly favour in place of secondary attack modes.

[Patriot1776]

Since we're talking so much about firearms in Heretic and maybe also HeXen if this might be adapted to HeXen, I've noticed that yes, there is the over-under shotgun, but no real long-range 'rifle' type weapon. Allow me to introduce a wiki article on a rifle that just might fit the bill to be a Heretic/HeXen-fitting rifle-type firearm:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1819_Hall_rifle

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This was among the first breechloading rifles to be designed and manufactured in large enough numbers for general military use. First made in 1819, it was produced in flintlock form up until 1840, and was redesigned with a percussion-cap ignition system and produced until 1853. It was used extensively in the Mexican-American War of 1846-1848, and was last seen on the battlefield during the American Civil War from 1861-1865 when both Union and Confederate troops used it extensively. It did NOT use metallic cartridges however. Loose blackpowder and lead balls or pre-fabricated paper cartridges were used with it, but instead of having to be loaded from the muzzle, the breech opened and the paper cartridge or loose power and ball were loaded directly into the breech, drastically shortening reload time for the next shot.

I again do not have spriting skills, but this is a firearm that would look right at home in a Heretic/HeXen firearms mod, especially the flintlock version. Single-shot weapon that would need reloading after every shot, and uses black powder and lead balls instead of metallic cartridges. I know its probably already been done with the Wrath of Cronus Hunter's weapons, but maybe a sprited form of this weapon would look very good in Heretic.

[Mav3rick]

some cool Tittles

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[rsl]

@Patriot1776: your weapon suggestion is very interesting - if not a bit hard to render properly using a centered weapons layout, since most of the peculiar rifle parts would get a bit "flattened" by the rear view. Might however be a very good option in case I end up porting "The Rebel" (which has angled weapons), as I hinted at a few posts above.

@Mav3rick: nice stuff! I find the second one the most fitting among the three. If you could rearrange it with the two words differently scaled, with "Uprising" smaller and in front of "Chaos", that'd be perfect

[Patriot1776]

Gonna try 'The Rebel' now then. ^^

Did you look for any YouTube videos of the breech-opening action being illustrated on the 1819 Hall Rifle?

Here is a couple pictures showing the breech-opened on it:

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As you can see, for blackpowder firearms shooting loose powder and ball, being able to do that was probably a godsend to soldiers who used these things to win wars and stay alive on the battlefield in the first half of the 19th Century. Pop open the breech, jam in your paper cartridge, slap it closed, then charge the priming pan with powder and cock the hammer and frizzen if its the flintlock, or just slip on a fresh percussion cap and cock the hammer for the percussion version, and you're ready to shoot again!

[Josh771]

Not being pushy here, but I was curious as to any current development progress being made on Chaos Uprising. If real life is slowing things down, you couldn't have a better excuse.

Also, I did give 'The Rebel' a shot, though I unfortunately played it in the vanilla Doom 2 mapset (which just doesn't fit the theme, I can tell you). Still, I was able to see its very dark, very grim "Lovecraftian" vibe. While I appreciated it, the mod I had in mind would perhaps be similar to the DoomRL Arsenal mod (more of a roleplaying mod). Carrying potions labeled only by color, scrolls labeled with unpronounceable sorceries, and of course the ever present danger of going insane from exposure to vile magic and the undead. Alas, it's probably a better discussion for another project altogether.

I like your rifle suggestion, Patriot1776. I think that would go very nicely with the break-open shotgun and possibly revolver, if rsl implements it.

I will watch the progress of this thread with enthusiasm.

[Mav3rick]

here you go

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[Ed the Bat]

Sorry to be tardy to the party. Got a little present for ya, RSL!
This rolls the FX Tamer into the main package, controlled by a CVAR (now available in the Options menu), as well as fixing the issue with the scattergun being selectable when it's out of ammo. The scattergun can also now be reloaded with the Reload key, in addition to AltFire. I also may have done a tiny bit of code cleanup here and there, but nothing particularly worth mentioning for now. One thing I wasn't really able to readily pack in was the different HUD used in the LifeFX version, so I've packed that as a tiny add-on. I didn't do anything to roll in the alternate sickle, as that would require somewhat more creative changes, and I prefer to leave creation up to the creator.

Lemme know if I missed anything, and I'll clean it up right away!

Now, if I may make a suggestion... the slime barrel really needs to be reduced a little bit. I know there's a gunpowder barrel in the FX Tamer, but the slime barrel can still work, so long as it doesn't produce 420 new actors upon death! I counted. I think that's quite overkill, and when there's more than one barrell in a group, my game basically freezes.

[rsl]

Hello all! Sorry for the lack of recent updates, but as SidDoyle put it, a couple of major events in real life prevented me to continue working regularly on this.
Now let me answer to everybody:

@Patriot1776: the shots you linked are beautiful! The combination of rudimentary technical firearms and occult powers always sounded very intriguing to me, so this rifle is something I would definitely consider when designing another modification of this kind.

@SidDoyle: thanks for your support! At the moment I am considering to incorporate the revolver and another "secret" weapon into the main class modification, so to make the arsenal more complete, and to reserve a better niche to the crossbow, as you suggested.

@Mav3rick: thank you I shall gladly incorporate it in the next release of the mod.

@Ed the Bat: the package you provided is nicely optimized, and with your permission, I would like its features to become part of the official release. Consider that I will probably merge these changes again with the main mod once I am finished with the new content (I have already made a number of changes starting from my last official version), so I might ask you later some directions on what you have touched up, to migrate it myself from your version. Also, you're probably right about that slime barrel... It is too much, as already suggested before. I shall try to nerf it graphics-wise.

Work is again underway...

[Ed the Bat]

I would be honored for my contributions to become part of the official project!

If there's more I can help with, I'd be happy to pitch in again.

[rsl]

TAH-DAH!

3.5

A new release hit the IDGames shelf these days!...
The changes are too much too re-listen here (other than in the opening post), but I'll quickly sum up the main highlights:

- Tons of balance- and bug-fixes.
- Mav3rSickle and Lite-package HUD now integrated in the main mod.
- LiteFX system now integrated into the main mod (thank you Ed the Bat for your alternate build!).
- A new low-tier weapon, the Revolver (arbalest now serving as a more powerful, stealth weapon).
- A new top-tier weapon, the Power Symbol (should come in handy in quests like HoCX, for example).
- And Last But Not Least, a new logo! (thank you Mav3rick for the base version!)

Download at the usual location: IDGames archive

[Ed the Bat]

Always happy to contribue! I look forward to playing with these updates later today.

[ArgonianLord]

This is by far my most favorite gameplay mod for Heretic. And its also the only time I've been able to live with guns in Heretic. These old-school guns feel like they fit into fantasy so damn well. Very good mod this rsl!

However I have some bugs to report that popped up recently.

After downloading the latest version on Doomworld/IDGames I could see the new stuff such as the revolver and that new Strife Sigil sprite weapon. I also could see a new graphic for the exploading ball things which looked like a metal barrel.

Now this might not sound like a problem right now, but lately. The new metal barrel graphic disappeared for me and was replaced by the old wooden slime barrel. I have no idea why this has even happened.
I also noticed the mod still has the issue where the shotgunner won't do any damage whatsoever to the player. Once again, I have no idea why this happens.
Another weird glitch me and my friend encountered in coop of this mod would be that we can't seem to get any new spells after getting the Tamer spell. After that, we're locked away from getting any more spells for the rest of the playthrough. I have no idea if this is a bug or a feature. But if its a bug I highly recommend fixing it asap.

I also noticed that the Ominous Looking box seems to only damage gargoyles (and perhaps other enemies), but cultists on the other hand remain unhurt by it.

Figured I'd fill you in on these issues. Once again, a great mod. I might consider doing a playthrough on YouTube with this mod at one point

/ArgonianLord