Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v1.4 10/23/2021)

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HexaDoken
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by HexaDoken »

Except that it doesn't really work.

I've just hosted a server and connected myself to it a few times. The first character I used have snagged up all weapons on the level, leaving others with what they had on the start.
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Captain Ventris
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

Well then the wiki can bite me, because that's what it told me would happen. Da fudge is the point of Inventory.ForbiddenTo and Inventory.RestrictedTo it they don't work? :|
HexaDoken
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by HexaDoken »

Interesting thing is that Inventory.ForbiddenTo ACTUALLY works. Scrap Inventory.RestrictedTo and replace with Inventory.ForbiddenTo.

Also, in CHICKEN ACS library, script 642 should check for NewBeakWeapon, not BeakWeapon. Fix it and chickens will start flying again.
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Captain Ventris
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

Ah, okay. That's...weird. Thanks, man, I'll implement those fixes in the next version. Thanks for looking at the ACS, I figured it was something stupid I had just overlooked repeatedly.
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TerminusEst13
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by TerminusEst13 »

Captain Ventris wrote:Well then the wiki can bite me, because that's what it told me would happen. Da fudge is the point of Inventory.ForbiddenTo and Inventory.RestrictedTo it they don't work? :|
Online play and offline play are really two wildly separate bags, I've learned. What works offline only has about a 50% chance of working online.
If you've got a buddy, rope him into testing everything online before you make a new release, don't just test offline.
HexaDoken
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by HexaDoken »

Captain Ventris wrote:-There may or may not be something which totally hard crashes your computer sometimes maybe when playing as Possesso. I have no idea what it would be. Someone double check my DECORATE or something.
Try replacing some Loop pointers with Goto Statename pointers. I have no logical explanation why they help but they do somethimes. Honestly, I have never experienced any of said crashes so I have no idea what might cause them, and therefore no idea if my advice will be of any help.
Captain Ventris wrote:-Possesso's Demon form can re-stealth itself to death.
Original mod behaviour. Was fixed by redefining "nomeves" inventory item and deriving it from "inventory" type rather than "custominventory".


I will look into HUDs problem and jumping sound things later.
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by NeuralStunner »

HexaDoken wrote:Interesting thing is that Inventory.ForbiddenTo ACTUALLY works. Scrap Inventory.RestrictedTo and replace with Inventory.ForbiddenTo.
Now what is that term for a feature that doesn't work...? :P

There's also a new INVENTORY.RESTRICTABSOLUTELY flag for those times you want to insist "yes, I mean it, HANDS OFF".
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Captain Ventris
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

Hexa, you make me happy. Thanks Neural, didn't know about that flag. Type-aType-aType-aType-aType-aType-a...

EDIT:
HexaDoken wrote:Original mod behaviour. Was fixed by redefining "nomeves" inventory item and deriving it from "inventory" type rather than "custominventory".
Did this, moved the translucency effect from the item to the DECORATE itself, and it all works, but he can still stealth himself to death. Seems to be ignoring the jumpifinventory. :/
HexaDoken
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by HexaDoken »

Code: Select all

actor nomeves2 : inventory {}

actor NewDemonWeap : DemonWeap replaces DemonWeap
{
  Weapon.SelectionOrder 50
  Weapon.SlotNumber 4  
  +AMMO_OPTIONAL
  +WEAPON.DONTBOB
  +WEAPON.CHEATNOTWEAPON
  Obituary "$OB_DEMONHIT" // "%o was bit by %k."
  States
  {
  Ready:
    DEWE A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("Especialchecker",1,2)
    DEWE A 5 A_WeaponReady	
    Loop
	DEWE A 0 A_TakeInventory("Especialchecker",10)	
	DEWE A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("nomeves2", 1, "Ready") //asdasdasdasdasd
	DEWE A 0 A_GiveInventory("nomeves2",1)
	DEWE A 0 A_ChangeFlag("SHADOW",1)
	DEWE A 0 damagething(25)
	DEWE I 20
	loop
  Deselect:
    DEWE A 1 A_Lower
    Loop
  Select:
    DEWE A 1 A_Raise
    Loop
  Fire:       	
	DEWE A 4
	DEWE A 4 A_CustomPunch(10,0,0,"HeroBulletPuff", 100)
	DEWE A 0 A_PlayWeaponSound("demon/melee")
		DEWE A 0 A_Setpitch(2)
		DEWE A 2
		DEWE A 0 A_Setpitch(-2)
	DEWE A 0  A_JumpIfInventory("Berskchecker",1,"Bersk")
	DEWE A 7
	DEWE A 0 A_ReFire
	goto ready   
	Bersk:
	DEWE A 0 damagething(4)
	DEWE A 4
	DEWE A 0 A_ReFire
	goto ready 
  Altfire:
    DEWE A 1
    DEWE A 1 ACS_EXECUTE(522,0,20,0,0)
	Goto Ready    
  }
}
Here's what I did. Works like a charm. There are actually two problems. First - the item does not get put in the inventory, therefore the A_JumpIfInventory does not get triggered. Redefining it as Inventory subclass fixes it. Second is that offset of A_JumpIfInventory is wrong(forgot to mention that). This is why you should use state names as offsets instead of numbers.
NeuralStunner wrote:Now what is that term for a feature that doesn't work...? :P

There's also a new INVENTORY.RESTRICTABSOLUTELY flag for those times you want to insist "yes, I mean it, HANDS OFF".
It is a feature that pretends to be working but actually is a masterfully disguised liar, and therefore should be shot down a few times, burnt down in the purifying flames of Zin, and it's ashes must be loaded into a 40m cannon and shot out somewhere really far away. Yeah that's it.

I have failed to even find said flag in zdoom wiki. SVN-y stuff? :O

EDIT: While being absolutely bored, and finding myself unable to coop Doomvengers on ZDoom due to constant desyncs(seriously, zdoom devs, cant you do SOMETHING about that?), I have been working on Zandronum compatible version of doomvengers. That's right - zandronum compatible. And I have done it! Terribly buggy now, but hey, it works, and I managed to almost not break any cruical gameplay fundaments. I had a test run today with my friend, and it was fun... however, what has come to my notice is that balance is lacking. Terribly.

Super Chicken. Oh god this is most overpowered thing I've ever seen. Obviously supposed to be a glass cannon, this guy in fact can take quite a beating, and can avoid said beating more than easily(unless the attackers are hitscanners, that is), which magically ups his survivability to the level of Necrosuit. What about the firepower department? He can waste any enemy with any weapon in less than 3 seconds. And unless the said enemy is a baron, MUCH less than 3 seconds.
Seriously, Ze Chicken is easily the most overpowered class in game. The choice of his weapon almost doesn't matter - just pick up one and everything existing DIES. It should be noted that the ammo supply of said weapons was enough to keep chicken armed like 99% of time. But what if he is out of weaponry? Not a problem - his beak can wipe out a baron in 10-15 health.
Also, to make the god of overpowerness even more pleased, super chicken is COMPLETELY STEALTH. That's right - none of his attacks even triggered an enemy, unless it was directed at him.

Necrosuit. Absolute opposite of the chicken, this guy is slow, heavy, and terribly underpowered. His 300 hp, 200 armor and escape ability of course add to survivability greatly, but when it comes to actually killing stuff Necrosuit sucks badly. His weapons are underpowered, at least compared to super chicken(compared to freerunner however they are mostly fine), and terribly balanced. Picking up a laser quickly makes rocket pods, chainguns and HV guns absolutely obsolete. And then picking up the Cannon, which is almost as powerful as Chicken's beak(beak!), makes laser obsolete.
Apart from oversized health bar, the only thing that necrosuit is better than others is ammo conservation. Seriously, it's too much! I have used only cannon for 3 maps straight and never ran out of ammo!

Freerunner. This guy has two tiers of weaponry - the utterly underpowered one and quite formidable one. The first tier consists of fists, pistols, shotgun and chaingun, the second consists of chainsaw, SSGs, rocket launcher, plasma rifle and BFG. While freerunner has no weapons from second tier, he is utterly useless - even more useless than Necrosuit is. He, however, grants a nice amount of firepower as soon as he lays hands on one of the weapon of second tier. He is still not enough to par Super Chicken, but he is fairly close. I actually think that he is most balanced class from the game, but holy crap, he can be much better.

Style Guy. Well, it's all simple with this guy. No style - LowerThanNecrosuit level. Yes style - AlmostSuperChicken level. And since the style is pretty damn everywhere he quickly becomes the second overpowered class. His weapons need a bit more balancing, too. For example, that plasmagun thing makes half of weapons obsolete, and Tech Laser is utterly useless when unpowered.

Posseso is... rofl. Just rofl. I dunno why, but nobody of us had enough wits to play as him for more than 5 minutes. So leave balancing him to someone else.


Suggestions to balance things out:

1) Nerf super chicken. Completely. Nerf everything - speed, health, damage, ammo amounts, etc. etc. etc... If you are not going to nerf super chicken, then you need to beef up everyone else, and majorly.

2) Increase NecroSuit's whole power scale. He mostly feels less powerful than Doomguy is. And decrease his ammo counters dramatically. It's not good when you can just run around with your favourite weapon all the time and spam it.
HV-gun - Well I dunno what to do with this one. It seems to be a nice middle choice between gattling guns and lasers, but providing player has both HV-guns immediately get obsolete. Leave as is, I think?
Gattling Guns - Bump the damage, maybe reduce the firerate so it isn't this stunlocky. Will do as good close-range boss killer.
Rocket Pods - Decrease damage(relatively) but up damage radius. Will do as a nice crowd control weapon.
Laser - leave as is. Will probably do as a nice all around weapon, given it's mediocre damage and firerate stats, and nice accuracy.
Cannon - reduce the damage goddamnit, it's OP compared to other suit's weapons. I cannot pose it as anything other than less powerful than chainguns boss killer, with having large accuracy to compensate.
Scorch Missiles - increase the damage radius, but decrease damage. In my opinion, they should be the best option for crowd control, but not as best option for boss killing as gattlings and cannons are.
(you can of course use your ideas instead of mine. But seriously, it will be much better this way than it is now, where all weapons are moslty more or less powerful versions of other weapons.)

3) Balance out Freerunners weapons. Nerf more powerful weapons, buff less powerful weapons, up his damage scale a bit. A bit.

4) Style Guy. For this one, I had an interesting idea. Buff up non-style weapons, leave styled up weapons as is. To compensate, make style points lying around MUCH less than they are now, and also make your Style bar slowly decrease itself when not in use. This will surely make style guy the most overpowered class, however, to access his great power, style guy must be playing very risky - prefering close combat more than ranged(as style points vanish quick) and always keeping himself on the move. Not sure how that will affect the gameplay, but hey, worth trying I think.


Theese are of course just suggestions, and they are mostly experimental - they might actually make things worse than they are now. Still, they look like good ideas in my head :P You may or may not follow the suggestions, it's your mod and stuff, but seriously, something needs to be done. Once again, majorly, nerf chicken and buff necrosuit.
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Captain Ventris
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

I have adapted most of what you wrote into it. Thanks for actually doing a real play test! I haven't had the chance to actually do a co-op test, so couldn't really have any decent idea as to where things stand. I'm going to just put in Zharkov as I have him now in the next version, then you can test him out. :P He's got WHACKY weapons, so he will undoubtedly need many adjustments.

I quadrupled the ammo use for Super Chicken (you'll REALLY have to be judicious) and nerfed the beak, and made the beak alert monsters again. It slipped my mind that EVERY other weapon is based off the beak - thus silent rockets and lasers.

I am making the Necrosuit's Napalm bombs (which you have probably never seen because they spawn alongside night vision goggles) much more available, so they should be a fun new trick for him. One can kill at least a Hellknight in a direct hit. Lay one down, step back, keep firing. It's good crowd control.

Style point pickups actually give you 3 style points a piece, so I'm decreasing that to 2, making the Style Guy have a third less Style Points overall. He feels much more natural now.

And for good measure, I gave Possesso many across-the-board buffs so that those host bodies can do some real good. He takes a certain measure of wit to play, and I've added a couple flags to make the ghost form more survivable (CANTSEEK and NORADIUSDMG). I'd like for Possesso to gain a second or two of invulnerability upon leaving or being ejected from a body, simply so the second or third Cyberdemon rocket doesn't kill you unfairly, and so you HAVE to be caught in the open to get killed, but I wouldn't know how to do that non-messily.

Anyway, this is all lookin' good. Thanks a load!
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by NotAGoodName »

Inventory.RestrictedTo works fine. However, it doesn't prevent players from picking up an item to get the ammo. It only prevents them from using the item. You need to use the flag INVENTORY.RESTRICTABSOLUTELY to prevent that behavior.
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Captain Ventris
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

...aaaaaaah. Well, then. Lemme go poke some stuff.

And yeah, that really is not a good name. :P

EDIT: SO IT DOES. That could have saved me a lot of typing earlier. :P
HexaDoken
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by HexaDoken »

I actually think that Super Chicken's beak should be stealth. Weapon attacks, however, certainly have to alert monsters. Use the silent flag and call A_AlertMonsters in each of the altfire states so primary fire doesn't alert monsters but altfires do.(that will probably break my zandro compatbility patch rather horribly, but hey, whatever)

Also, forgot to mention. Necrosuit's wristblades are friggin OVERPOWERED. They are so OP that they are easily the most powerful weapon in whole damn game, aside from Freerunner's BFG and a few of Chicken's weapons(namely lazor). I think halving the damage value wouldn't hurt.

I have seen napalm bombs, because we have been playing loldoom2.wad. Don't have much comments on them because they were eaten by my friend well before I could lay hands on them.
By the way, my friend rages badly about them. "Y U REPLACE VISOR I CANT SEE AAAAAAAAAA"

Now that we come think of it, Style Guy feels somewhat left out on silent attack department. Chicken has the beak, Necrosuit has the wristblade, Freerunner has fists, Possesso has it's... umm, something, Zharkov will probably have ultimately epic kung-fu combo with some ripping action, and then Style Guy has A Big Nothing, and therefore, as soon as stealth missions begin style guy just sits on the spawn point and sleeps until someone shoots something. Add Style Fist or something?
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by wildweasel »

I may think about a Style Fist weapon that acts like a normal (smoothed) fist, with the alternate attack being a Fist of the North Star-esque rapid punch. If Ventris feels he can implement that himself, I'd not be opposed, but at the same time I think I might also try my hand at it and see what further abuse I can wreak on the Textures system. =P
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Re: Doomvengers: Earth's Weirdest Heroes (v0.35)

Post by Captain Ventris »

HexaDoken wrote:I actually think that Super Chicken's beak should be stealth. Weapon attacks, however, certainly have to alert monsters. Use the silent flag and call A_AlertMonsters in each of the altfire states so primary fire doesn't alert monsters but altfires do.(that will probably break my zandro compatbility patch rather horribly, but hey, whatever)

Also, forgot to mention. Necrosuit's wristblades are friggin OVERPOWERED. They are so OP that they are easily the most powerful weapon in whole damn game, aside from Freerunner's BFG and a few of Chicken's weapons(namely lazor). I think halving the damage value wouldn't hurt.

I have seen napalm bombs, because we have been playing loldoom2.wad. Don't have much comments on them because they were eaten by my friend well before I could lay hands on them.
By the way, my friend rages badly about them. "Y U REPLACE VISOR I CANT SEE AAAAAAAAAA"

Now that we come think of it, Style Guy feels somewhat left out on silent attack department. Chicken has the beak, Necrosuit has the wristblade, Freerunner has fists, Possesso has it's... umm, something, Zharkov will probably have ultimately epic kung-fu combo with some ripping action, and then Style Guy has A Big Nothing, and therefore, as soon as stealth missions begin style guy just sits on the spawn point and sleeps until someone shoots something. Add Style Fist or something?
Yeah, that sounds good, especially now that the beak is muuuuuuuch weaker than before.

Well, the Necrosuit's standard punch does 8 damage (via Doom maths, so 8,16, or 24), whereas Freerunner's now does 10-20 raw damage but the wristblade does... 12 damage in Doom maths. Guess I'll tone that down. :P Zharkov's melee is... impressive, however. I might spend 4 or 5 versions just tuning it down. I always forget that other people DON'T always take Hellknight punches on the nose. I'd dodge if I could, honest.

Also, I was thinking of making the Necrosuit immune to his own bombs so you could just set them off under your feet and look cool and stuff.
wildweasel wrote:I may think about a Style Fist weapon that acts like a normal (smoothed) fist, with the alternate attack being a Fist of the North Star-esque rapid punch. If Ventris feels he can implement that himself, I'd not be opposed, but at the same time I think I might also try my hand at it and see what further abuse I can wreak on the Textures system. =P
You go right ahead. One, TEXTURES is terrifying. Two, frame offsets in DECORATE are terrifying. Three, if the original author does it, it can be added without this becoming 'Ventris changes everything: the wad, the myth, the legend', and I can stick to getting it to cooperate.

I WILL be adding some rare, universal weapon drops in the future such as Massmouth's Raygun, or a version of the Instant Discharge Cannon from Sky May Be. You know, goofy stuff, like how I'll do a pack with the Doomvengers' terrible villains.
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