Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.10.0 Beta]

[Ranik]

I've just been playing a bit with the latest DoomRL+DoomRPG + New doom community project and I've had some difficulty scaling issues.

Typically I play on nightmare, fast monsters on, monsters levels set to both (rather than player level or map level) and all sliders at default. I've also turned on specialized monster stats. Now with these settings the first level is always a major risk since you've got nothing but a pistol. However after breaking through the first level and hitting lvl 12 in the process (after a bit of outpost arena fighting), i noticed then that in level 2 a lot of the monsters were dying quite quickly. I've dumped no points into strength as I usually pump my item drop rate up to 20 first of all.

As a technician I'm able to one shot many of the imps with a combat shotgun and a Mancubus in level 2 dies in 3-4 combat shotgun rounds both from a decent range instead of point blank. At point blank I can kill a revenant with 2 shots.

Is this a scaling issue(using default slider values)? Specialized monster stat issue (dumping too many points into offense and not enough in health and defense)?

[Tapwave]

I just finished my playthrough of Epic 2 with RL and RPG, and yeah, you need to raise the monster scaling curve once you get the hang of things. Because you'll eventually accumulate so much useful stuff and become so ungodly powerful that you'll wipe everything even if you're on a high skill.
I was on Nightmare, specialized stats, monster scaling at 2. Playing marine.
The first few maps were horribly hard (had to punch 90% of the monsters in the first few levels due to ammo issues), but once I reached map 13, I basically couldn't die, as I was armed with 2 master assemblies, 2 Uniques, the Inquisitor set (which is probably the most broken set int he game), and had a backup Legendary armor in tow.

All you need to do is upgrade Luck and energy, get the heal and ammo drop skill, and then try to save as much money as possible for shields. Once you got a decent shield and a decent arsenal, you're pretty much invulnerable.

[Ranik]

I just finished my playthrough of Epic 2 with RL and RPG, and yeah, you need to raise the monster scaling curve once you get the hang of things. Because you'll eventually accumulate so much useful stuff and become so ungodly powerful that you'll wipe everything even if you're on a high skill.
I was on Nightmare, specialized stats, monster scaling at 2. Playing marine.
The first few maps were horribly hard (had to punch 90% of the monsters in the first few levels due to ammo issues), but once I reached map 13, I basically couldn't die, as I was armed with 2 master assemblies, 2 Uniques, the Inquisitor set (which is probably the most broken set int he game), and had a backup Legendary armor in tow.

All you need to do is upgrade Luck and energy, get the heal and ammo drop skill, and then try to save as much money as possible for shields. Once you got a decent shield and a decent arsenal, you're pretty much invulnerable.

Ah ok so it wasn't just me. I wonder, is difficulty scaling known to be an issue? I mean is it something that's planned to be worked on in the future? Like a slow ramp up in difficulty over time for default settings? Or would the curve option handle that? I understand how the weights act in a short term manner but not how they act over a series of maps in a campaign. The aura curve is a mystery to me as well.

[Tapwave]

Ah ok so it wasn't just me. I wonder, is difficulty scaling known to be an issue? I mean is it something that's planned to be worked on in the future? Like a slow ramp up in difficulty over time for default settings? Or would the curve option handle that? I understand how the weights act in a short term manner but not how they act over a series of maps in a campaign. The aura curve is a mystery to me as well.

Well, scaling is not bad, it's just as bad as you want it to be. It's pretty easy to break the game on the long term (which is what happenned a few versions ago when I did the jokewad binge), even if the curves are set high. So the best thing is to raise the curves manually as the game progresses.

[Ranik]

Ah ok so it wasn't just me. I wonder, is difficulty scaling known to be an issue? I mean is it something that's planned to be worked on in the future? Like a slow ramp up in difficulty over time for default settings? Or would the curve option handle that? I understand how the weights act in a short term manner but not how they act over a series of maps in a campaign. The aura curve is a mystery to me as well.

Well, scaling is not bad, it's just as bad as you want it to be. It's pretty easy to break the game on the long term (which is what happenned a few versions ago when I did the jokewad binge), even if the curves are set high. So the best thing is to raise the curves manually as the game progresses.

Hmm, I wonder... Right now iirc the difficulty changes Item drop rates, initial enemy HP/Stats and the chance of spawning tougher monster types.

Would it be possible to semi automate the process? IE: The initial scaling would be Normal Monster/Map scaling at (1.0). Hard is (1.2). Nightmare (1.5) and as the levels go by it increases slightly to Normal (1.5) Hard (1.7) Nightmare (2.0) etc etc

or

Initial scaling is (1.0) across all difficulties but harder difficulties scale higher over time meaning slower progression and tougher fights down the line.

I may be getting some things confused in my understanding and explanation. But it just seems to me like balance has so many variables that it may need some looking into. Between all of the difficulty levels, the scaling options, the stat system and then the item system. There are so many working parts that consistent difficulty is at times tricky.

And after some further testing it seems like the specialized stat option is a bit too "heavy" instead of focusing a bit more in one department it creates glass cannons that can easily be killed and can get massive critical hits on you.

Maybe have three options, Off, weak and strong. Strong would be as it is now but weak would be more generalized and something in between normal stat allocation and the current specialized.

[Blue Shadow]

Is there a reason* that would prevent someone from using ZDoom over GZDoom when playing this? I mostly prefer the software renderer, so I was wondering...

---

A really good reason, something that's mod-breaking. If it's just about the eyecandy, I don't mind truecolor things from being rendered in 8-bit mode.

[Tapwave]

And after some further testing it seems like the specialized stat option is a bit too "heavy" instead of focusing a bit more in one department it creates glass cannons that can easily be killed and can get massive critical hits on you.

It's pretty much the whole point of it. Speccing makes some monsters very durable, some very strong, some very fast, some very... Energetic or capable of carrying stuff?

[Ranik]

And after some further testing it seems like the specialized stat option is a bit too "heavy" instead of focusing a bit more in one department it creates glass cannons that can easily be killed and can get massive critical hits on you.

It's pretty much the whole point of it. Speccing makes some monsters very durable, some very strong, some very fast, some very... Energetic or capable of carrying stuff?

I know. My point being it tends to waste a lot of points and at times create glass cannons or just plain cannon fodder.

EDIT: Are you supposed to get so much base level damage boost? Level 20 with zero points in strength and I have 120% bonus damage. I killed a cyberdemon with a single missile from a rocket launcher...

I can confirm some sort of bug. At the beginning of New doom community project map 2 i was fighting normally. Towards the end I had somehow gotten insane damage. Single shots from the battle rifle would do 1.5k or more fists the same. All of my weapons had somehow become bugged. I proceeded to the next map and they reset in strength. No idea what caused this.

[Kyle873]

And after some further testing it seems like the specialized stat option is a bit too "heavy" instead of focusing a bit more in one department it creates glass cannons that can easily be killed and can get massive critical hits on you.

It's pretty much the whole point of it. Speccing makes some monsters very durable, some very strong, some very fast, some very... Energetic or capable of carrying stuff?

I know. My point being it tends to waste a lot of points and at times create glass cannons or just plain cannon fodder.

EDIT: Are you supposed to get so much base level damage boost? Level 20 with zero points in strength and I have 120% bonus damage. I killed a cyberdemon with a single missile from a rocket launcher...

I can confirm some sort of bug. At the beginning of New doom community project map 2 i was fighting normally. Towards the end I had somehow gotten insane damage. Single shots from the battle rifle would do 1.5k or more fists the same. All of my weapons had somehow become bugged. I proceeded to the next map and they reset in strength. No idea what caused this.

That bug was fixed yesterday. Update to the latest version.

[Ranik]

That bug was fixed yesterday. Update to the latest version.

Odd last night I grabbed the latest GZdoom, RPG and RL. I'll do so again. Or it could be I updated to the latest normal GZdoom rather than the latest Dev build. That's probably it.

[Kyle873]

That bug was fixed yesterday. Update to the latest version.

Odd last night I grabbed the latest GZdoom, RPG and RL. I'll do so again. Or it could be I updated to the latest normal GZdoom rather than the latest Dev build. That's probably it.

Nah, it was Doom RPG. I update it a lot. Sometimes upwards of 20 times a day.

[Ranik]

That bug was fixed yesterday. Update to the latest version.

Odd last night I grabbed the latest GZdoom, RPG and RL. I'll do so again. Or it could be I updated to the latest normal GZdoom rather than the latest Dev build. That's probably it.

Nah, it was Doom RPG. I update it a lot. Sometimes upwards of 20 times a day.

Ah, I saw the version number as the same and assumed nothing had changed.

[Blue Shadow]

Is there a possibility that the Outpost missions could be game-based. I took a mission where I need to kill two revenants while I was playing Ultimate Doom - there are no revenants in Ultimate Doom.

[Kyle873]

Is there a possibility that the Outpost missions could be game-based. I took a mission where I need to kill two revenants while I was playing Ultimate Doom - there are no revenants in Ultimate Doom.

Impossible. No way to check which wads are actually loaded.

[Triple S]

Is there a possibility that the Outpost missions could be game-based. I took a mission where I need to kill two revenants while I was playing Ultimate Doom - there are no revenants in Ultimate Doom.

Impossible. No way to check which wads are actually loaded.

Could override the list of missions with a different one when the Doom1 compatibility patch is loaded.