Doom sprites HD (8x) version v03 released

For in-development or completed ZDoom projects
Forum rules
Got a cool project idea but nothing else? This forum is NOT for you! Put it in this thread instead!
Please read the full rules for more details.

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby JustinC » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:31 pm

Mtzfire wrote:....

Uhhh.....Mtz....they redrew the whole sprite. Its got shading sure, but I don't see what your trying to say. And calling this "beta" doesn't make much sense either. You either draw them in high quality, or you don't. There is no in-between. There is no building block to get there. To imply that, re-detailing those images makes the first batch seem like a waste of time as you would have to redraw them entirely over again anyway. There is no short cuts for stuff like this, you either take the time to do it in HD or you just call it your version of the sprite.

Edit: In response to .+:icytux:+., below me, I always thought Doom WAS a cartoon or comicbook, lol.
Last edited by JustinC on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
JustinC
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby .+:icytux:+. » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:33 pm

As you are sort of saying here. the SF HD sprites arn't supposed to look realistic, they are supposted to look anime. So thats why it's not in the same way jammed with detail, instead they just brought forth the anime aspects and its shading. Doom on the other hand isn't supposed to look cartoony. Atleast as I see it, the artstyle tries to lean toward as much realism as it could in its time. This is why the SF HD project and this is so different. The SF HD project did what it was supposed to do real well.
User avatar
.+:icytux:+.
Mr. Happy of the Day!
 
Joined: 17 May 2007
Location: Finland

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:49 pm

JustinC wrote:they redrew the whole sprite...There is no building block to get there.

Not true, I'm surprised the way the SF HD sprites were made isn't something everyone knows by now.
They create vectors over the old sprites, then slowly add the layers of shade, then smudge up a few areas only, to add an artsy touch.
-You can look up the process. So yes, it is a process of building blocks. And yes, you can always call it beta and improve it later. It wouldn't cause any problems, other than the fact you'd have to wait to get the final result.

.+:icytux:+. wrote:Doom on the other hand isn't supposed to look cartoony..., the artstyle tries to lean toward as much realism as it could in its time.

I have to disagree, because Doom2RPG looks like a cartoon, a well drawn cartoon. Id Software easily could have drawn realistic-looking monsters, or at least ones with a scary dark comicbook style, but they didn't, they made some nice, kickass cartoons, and they are the best classic Doom sprites by far (except the model rips :lol: )
You see Doom your way, I'll see it mine. I like the Doom2RPG art.
Last edited by Mtzfire on Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:04 pm

You are having some nice progress. Now that I finished the new version of BD, I have some free time to spend helping you if you wish. I can do the polishing work.
User avatar
Sergeant_Mark_IV
Worse than Hitler.
Banned User
 
Joined: 02 Feb 2011
Location: United Communist Nazi Republic Dictactorship of Banana Land (Brazil)

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby JustinC » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:31 pm

Mtzfire wrote:
JustinC wrote:they redrew the whole sprite...There is no building block to get there.

Not true, I'm surprised the way the SF HD sprites were made isn't something everyone knows by now.
They create vectors over the old sprites, then slowly add the layers of shade, then smudge up a few areas only, to add an artsy touch.
-You can look up the process. So yes, it is a process of building blocks. And yes, you can always call it beta and improve it later. It wouldn't cause any problems, other than the fact you'd have to wait to get the final result.


Yes, in those terms there are building blocks, everything has stages. When talking about Doom though, YOU HAVE TO REDRAW THE SPRITES. Your shading means nothing. You can't polish a turd.
As far as vectors go, thats one way to do it. Why you would want to do it that way for this, I don't know. Re-doing the Doom sprites requires the artist to render anatomy based on his knowledge and skill, as the pixels provided don't give you all the info needed. And you can't boil down the SF art to vectors and shading, if so, your really dumping on the great artists that worked on the game. Its more than that, they have skill. If you want HD sprites for doom, why have a beta stage? You may as well do it as you go, its just wasting time otherwise. To get nice large high quality sprites involves drawing over top of the existing sprites. You can blur and filter to Kingdom Come, but the original sprites will always be superior. The guy's sprites are fine, its his take on it. There is no easy way to do this kind of stuff. You keep saying "methods", but in the end, you just have to draw.
User avatar
JustinC
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:43 pm

JustinC wrote:Your shading means nothing.Why you would want to do it that way for this, I don't know... If so, your really dumping on the great artists that worked on the game

So you didn't get any of what I said :lol: I clearly explained you wouldn't want to do it in Doom, that it wouldn't fit.
And I only stated what they did, if you find it insulting then that's up to you, I never said their sprites were by any means bad, in fact I love them, all I've done here is describe how they were made, I didn't say the artists didn't use their skill.

JustinC wrote:You just have to redraw.

If that's what you wonna do, otherwise you can find other ways, like the guys did for their game.
I won't deny that redrawing using the imagination and anatomy and all that stuff will give you te best results in the long run, but it's not the only way to do it.

I for one, can see that the method used in this thread can be worked on, and then touched up on, and you'd get a nice result. If you can't see that then that's fine, it's all a matter of opinion, is it not?
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby NeuralStunner » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:53 pm

Mtzfire wrote:
Spoiler:

As you see, there is barely any new detail
Look at the belt buckle, the bands around the boots, and the headband. If that's not detail, I'm a bowl of rabbit stew. As usual, you're making no sense.

Enjay wrote:I think that looks at least reasonable.
Of course it's going to look more reasonable, when the low res sprite you're comparing it to has been pissed upon by a linear filter. That's very political of you. :P
User avatar
NeuralStunner
Registered to make one post
 
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Location: Who?

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:58 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:Look at the belt buckle, the bands around the boots, and the headband. If that's not detail, I'm a bowl of rabbit stew

And I didn't say the sprite had no detail, I said it didn't have alot, and it doesn't :P It has maybe 2x the detail, even though the image is much more than 2x the resolution. And it looks great.
Look at his skin, his pants, his boots. The same as old sprite, but with more what? Clarity. There's only little more detial, like a vein in his arm, and so on. That's just a description, don't assume I'm hating on the sprite, I like it very much.
----------

So again as I said, the sprites here can be touched up on, it's not a bad method, it's a stepping stone to getting them done.
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby JustinC » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:15 pm

[quote="Mtzfire"][/quote]
I think the issue is, your looking at it a bit backwards. Those 2 examples you used are like night and day. What appears to be the same sprite are 2 entirely different images. The low res version capturing the spirit of the high res version. Its easy to think that that much detail isn't added, to the untrained eye.
And when you say you wouldn't redo the Doom images with vectors, why bring it up in the first place?
If this kind of stuff was that easy to do, everyone would be doing it. The sad truth is, quality spriting takes time and drive. And "methods" to alleviate this time are just some kind of cop out (and I wouldn't blame anybody for that-when it comes to "Doom" content, I can be a lazy bastard). And again, this dudes sprites are fine, its his vision, but the original sprites are just stronger.
User avatar
JustinC
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:24 pm

JustinC wrote:the original sprites are just stronger.

Well with all disagreement, that's all I can agree on, and I can see you will stick to your view, which is good, I'll stick to mine too
Also, glad to see at least you think the sprites are fine, I think that too. Wether or not they qualify as hires or hd, or neither, well I don't think it matters much, what matters is if you like them or not, as an individual.
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby thief666 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:27 pm

Hey,

It seems that maybe better forum is doom universe where are lacated headquaters of HD sprites team.
http://thedoomuniverse.prophpbb.com/post3887.html#p3887
I am already registered there and iwll continue posting this HD stuff (if anyone likes it). I already got some very useful advices (basically similiar to what Sergeant Mark IV told me,
about shading etc. - by he way thank for help and i apreciate your offer for further help). Also i got hints about possible additional software like smart edge 2.

I think some of the sprites already benefit from it like here partially I got rid of those "horrible lines" just by adding some "3D" shading
Image

I tried smudge stuff and painting and at least for me it seems that inintial stages of vecotr scaling and possibly in future "smart-edge-ing" SIGNIFICANTLY shortens time you have to spend on single sprite
which may make project feasible. Also HD approach if accepted is quite automatic. Once DoomRPG are, MD2 art and the most decent artwork is combined it takes only
adding different expressions for animation frames and copy-pasting heads. If I could get 150 sprites in no-time and was able to further smudge a few quite quickly (and I am very untalented person), it should be a blast with experienced team :)
thief666
 
Joined: 09 Sep 2011

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby JustinC » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:30 pm

All things said, strive for the unobtainable. Or be prepared for this type of conversation to continue on for an eternity.
User avatar
JustinC
 
Joined: 23 Feb 2010

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:34 pm

Hey I really like the second sprite there :)
That shading has a nice smooth feel.
Also, I saw that Sergeant Mark IV substantially made the sprites look nice, I think you should first create these sprites, since they look nice, and afterward you can think about our attempt at making "hires/hd" stuff. That way, you can actually get something done, before stepping into our pit of never-gonna-finish-this :lol:
I noticed someone said you should change the title of the thread, maybe that'd be a good idea, since no one really sees these as hires or HD, which is fine, because they look nice anyway (not to some).

But yeah, I guess you should finish this first, since it's something you can actually finish, just think about it a bit ;)
I think Sergeant Mark IV can add some great charm to your sprites, making 'em better n' better
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Hellser » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:15 pm

Image

Look! I made HD! :lol:

Spoiler: First


On the positive side. It still looks nice, but I'm not taking the bait. If the creator were to use these skills for making new enemies (and using the originals as TEMPLATE..), we'll have more monster variants rather than simple recolors on our hands.
User avatar
Hellser
Zergling Attack!
 
Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Location: ˙alwaysworld˙

Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Mtzfire » Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:27 pm

I don't see what problem you're trying to show there :lol:
See I know that Skulltag can render hires sprites without loosing quality (I've done before), so what's the problem?

If it's the resolution, you just have to play at a higher resolution. Is it too hard? :?
A resolution of 320x200 looks awful, and a very, very, very old PC can run Doom at at least 640x480.
User avatar
Mtzfire
 
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Location: Fresno, CA

PreviousNext

Return to Projects

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Bing [Bot] and 11 guests