[BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

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Davidos
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Davidos »

Technically I meant to say that Doom + realism = unfun


The way HD did it made it into a tactical coop game but people were... blatantly put, too stupid to figure out 'how' to be tactical that the project pretty much got guilotined in favor for other projects, it was 'too hard' for some people...


Well I guess I'm the only one that can say I bloody damn well enjoyed it more than most games out now, even more that I could fully mod the sounds and sprites to my own liking and add to the realism =.=



Err, that aside, Diaz + realism = no

Diaz was made to have fun, not to have some ultra realistic shootout with a squad of zombies <-- unrealistic <--- paradox


So thar!
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wildweasel
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by wildweasel »

Davidos wrote:Diaz was made to have fun, not to have some ultra realistic shootout with a squad of zombies <-- unrealistic <--- paradox
Not quite. I made Diaz to add some realism features to Doom that I had begun to miss from other shooters.Well, I mean, I did make Diaz so that people could have fun with it, but the fact that it's realistic is a neat little side effect. =P
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by NeuralStunner »

wildweasel wrote:Not quite. I made Diaz to add some realism features to Doom that I had begun to miss from other shooters.Well, I mean, I did make Diaz so that people could have fun with it, but the fact that it's realistic is a neat little side effect. =P
When you can get shot in the chest 20 times, and heal yuor bullet holes instantly by picking up a medkit... Sorry, DooM wasn't that cut out for realism. But at least you can say you tried. :P
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by XutaWoo »

Darlos wrote:Cocking upon drawing a weapon regardless of whether or not its already loaded feels kinda weird to me still...
I've always seen that as removing the magazine and the in-gun bullet while deselecting it, so that it wouldn't actidentally fire. During the brief, 0 seconds while the weapons are off-screen, of course. :P
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by NeuralStunner »

XutaWoo wrote:I've always seen that as removing the magazine and the in-gun bullet while deselecting it, so that it wouldn't actidentally fire.
BLAM!

"%o blew %p left toe off. Oops."
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Darlos
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Darlos »

XutaWoo wrote:
Darlos wrote:Cocking upon drawing a weapon regardless of whether or not its already loaded feels kinda weird to me still...
I've always seen that as removing the magazine and the in-gun bullet while deselecting it, so that it wouldn't actidentally fire. During the brief, 0 seconds while the weapons are off-screen, of course. :P
Alright, I guess I'll go with that, lol.
Davidos wrote:Technically I meant to say that Doom + realism = unfun
One needs to be careful with so much generalization. Like, a devil's advocate could argue that having anything even remotely resembling real weapons is "too realistic." But clearly we want the weapons to look decently real because real guns are cool. "Real" doesn't always detract from "cool" or "fun" in all cases.

Plus, there's something that often gets confused for realism, and that's consistency. Something may work unrealistically, but it becomes far more noticeable if one thing works realistically, and then another closely related thing doesn't work realistically at all. It's actually better for both things to be unrealistic, because then it's at least consistent. Of course, both things being realistic makes it just as consistent. It's up to the designer as to which way things should go.

In this case, we have a shotgun that actually works pretty realistically, but other weapons that do not. So my arguments are more against inconsistency than things being unrealistic.
Davidos wrote:The way HD did it made it into a tactical coop game but people were... blatantly put, too stupid to figure out 'how' to be tactical that the project pretty much got guilotined in favor for other projects, it was 'too hard' for some people...
To be perfectly honest, I'd say it was less stupidity on the player's part and more the fact that hideous destructor was just so awkward. Typically, slowing the player down to a crawl when we're all used to moving pretty quickly and easily isn't too great of an idea. It was also far too easy to die even WHEN trying to be tactical.

Agent Hernandez here I think takes some of the tradeoffs from HD and makes them a bit more sensible. Like, yeah, enemies do more damage, but they're also pretty easy to take out. Plus, the reason they do more damage is often less because their shots do more damage and more because they just put out more shots, as you have more enemies with automatic weapons who aren't afraid to just lay into you with them. Furthermore you can actually move which is a great help.

New graphics and sounds always helps too.
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Cardboard Marty
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Cardboard Marty »

Alright, some INTERESTING NEWS! I've completed (graphically) TWO new weapons! Well, one new weapon, one revised weapon!

The Arc-Welder from Diaz is back...except this time, it will kick ass! Also the Shotput got a tremendous makeover! It will now fire three different grenade types! What sort of grenade types, you ask? You'll find out!...eventually! :D
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Woolie Wool »

If any of you liked my Human Enemies for Diaz patch, you'll be pleased to know that I'm working on a new version for Hernandez, that will be a lot better balanced than the Diaz version (the power armored guys have been toned way, way down).

As with Agent Hernandez itself, this is an unfinished beta.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ukqw94

Hernandez needs some way to make noise with his starting loadout, I have to cheat to get through the door in Suspended in Dusk map01.
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Cardboard Marty
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Cardboard Marty »

Weas and I were talking of a taunt function awhile back, I think that could work.
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supergoofy
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by supergoofy »

I like the Human Enemies patch, thanks Woolie Wool.
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Davidos
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by Davidos »

Now, I know I'm kinda bumping this thing for uselessness but I gotta say, I'm started to get the freakin' freak annoyed 'cuz of the fact that ZDOOM automatically reloads for ya once your gun 's out of rounds.

Not only does this:
-Prevent you from quickly switching to another weapon
-Mellee Attacking
-*insert anything else to run/push/jab/stab/kick/thump your enemy and get your arse out of there in time*

It also feels completely jerked that it doesn't do the same for weapon unjamming.

The autopistol jammed about 9 times in a row, yes, 9 times in a row, that is 1 + 1 jam + 1 + 1 jam etc. leaving me like a freakin' sitting duck.

To make matters worse, it took me THREE (Bitch)slaps to push the sucker out on the last round and by the time I got that far my health was blinking below 4 >.>;
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wildweasel
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by wildweasel »

Davidos wrote:Now, I know I'm kinda bumping this thing for uselessness but I gotta say, I'm started to get the freakin' freak annoyed 'cuz of the fact that ZDOOM automatically reloads for ya once your gun 's out of rounds.

Not only does this:
-Prevent you from quickly switching to another weapon
-Mellee Attacking
-*insert anything else to run/push/jab/stab/kick/thump your enemy and get your arse out of there in time*

It also feels completely jerked that it doesn't do the same for weapon unjamming.

The autopistol jammed about 9 times in a row, yes, 9 times in a row, that is 1 + 1 jam + 1 + 1 jam etc. leaving me like a freakin' sitting duck.

To make matters worse, it took me THREE (Bitch)slaps to push the sucker out on the last round and by the time I got that far my health was blinking below 4 >.>;
Alright, well, the fact that I have set the mod to auto-reload most weapons is a compromise from WWHC-Diaz, where many, many MANY people complained that the weapons DID NOT autoreload.

Time for a poll. Do you want the weapons to auto-reload? I am not going to put in a toggle. That was a fucking pain in the last mod.
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ThatOneZDoomer
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by ThatOneZDoomer »

wildweasel wrote:Alright, well, the fact that I have set the mod to auto-reload most weapons is a compromise from WWHC-Diaz, where many, many MANY people complained that the weapons DID NOT autoreload.

Time for a poll. Do you want the weapons to auto-reload? I am not going to put in a toggle. That was a fucking pain in the last mod.
I thought the weapons wouldn't auto reload if they just hit zero ammo without trying to fire again. On the other hand, this could be hard to time with automatic weapons.

I think auto-reloading should stay, since if you pay attention to your ammo count, you wouldn't reload by mistake in the middle of a heated fight instead of switching to another weapon or melee attacking. On the other hand, it's not quite easy to keep track of your ammo when in such heated fights. I don't suppose the guns could make an extra clicking noise or something when firing on a low clip. I think some games I played did that.
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supergoofy
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by supergoofy »

I agree autoload should stay, else it would be very annoying sometimes. But I want also to be able to reload manually before enter an area with enemies. Thus keep things as they are now.
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Re: [BETA! UNFINISHED] Agent Hernandez: Dawn of Tomorrow

Post by wildweasel »

Well, come to think of it, this could be easily remedied if I were to figure out how to add an interrupt for reloading, so melee attacks and weapon switches will stop the reload immediately. Only problem there is how to accomplish that without severe code clutter.
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