Hideous Destructor 4.10.0b

[Matt]

That map has 946 monsters on medium. I'm surprised I even got as far as the cacos before it became a slideshow. :S

(Also it crashes unless I delete the LOADACS in it. Not blank, but remove the entry entirely. No idea why. EDIT: Happens even without HD...)

[mumblemumble]

I know, but if you try it with an HD build from say, a year ago, the game will be much smoother. This is the thing which bothered me.

[Matt]

It seems to be the culmination of many accretions to monster behaviour and any fix will be partial and incremental in very small amounts.

Most of which will be long after this NEW UPDATE! has passed.

Changes:

• Bugfix: Encumbrance didn't check for batteries in Vulcanette and HERP, as well as HERP ammo.
• Bugfix: Freeze on deathmatch when hd_nobots was on and you spawned multiple bots at once.
• Bugfix: Dead, not-gibbed chaingunguys couldn't be raised.
• Bugfix: Insurgent's chainsaw always started empty.
• Bugfix: Loaded HEAT missing from encumbrance calculation.
• Bugfix: Due to the need to spawn a new actor after the raise, if a gibbed marine is being raised it may be interrupted by shooting and disappear entirely. They are no longer shootable during the raise sequence.
• Bugfix: Dropped cooking-off ZM66 ignored chamber.
• Bugfix: Frag counter overlapped with ammo counter on automap.
• Bugfix: If you were moving and fired both SSG barrels at once, the shots would point in different directions independently of each other. Also resolved an inconsistency in treatment and now SSG barrels consistently angle inwards slightly no matter whether you're firing both or one at a time.
• Bugfix: Useless ammo drop didn't check for second pistol when deciding whether to drop pistol mags.
• Tweaked the Vulcanette weapon inertia. Technically also a bugfix, since one of the numbers didn't factor in the base number for something else and the result was much lower than it should have been.
• Reduced all weapon encumbrance ratings.
• Vulcanette droop and smoking now handled through an overlay.
• Major changes to item bulk counts. Most things are lighter.
• Brontornis rounds max increased to 20.
• ZM66 now has a true delayed-recoil salvo! Watch out for the ZM-wielding jackboots.
• Liberator recoil now also at least theoretically stacks in a similar manner to the ZM66.
• Got rid of the arbitrary random jerkiness of firing the Vulcnette while moving, but increased the base muzzle climb.
• Tweaked shotgun, SMG and Boss recoil a bit to match the rifles.
• Added hd_jumpdrop user cvar. Normally you cannot jump or dodge while you're in the middle of an involved weapon interaction such as reloading, but you can drop the weapon to abort. With this option turned on, you will automatically drop the weapon in such a situation.
• ZM66 cooloff rate, at least while the player is holding it, is now constant no matter what you're doing with the gun.
• SSG single-barrel flashes now occur on different overlays, making them completely independent of each other and minimizing unwanted side effects of overlap. This should make it easier and smoother to fire two shots in extremely rapid succession.
• ZM66 jackboots will also suffer jams in accordance with the new salvo mechanism.
• Turning restrictions now use MODINPUT_YAW/PITCH instead of comparing current to previous tic. There should be no noticeable difference (which is unfortunate - I was hoping this might address the wobbliness that is especially noticeable while aiming with a scope from a supported position).
• You can now properly brace your weapon using the weapon collision! It's a bit tricky but once you're in position it works.
• Loose 4.26mm and partial cells are now discarded with the drop-extra command, and take up encumbrance blocks. (The less you think about how the cell encumbrance is estimated, the better.)
• Yokai now abort ongoing attacks if you get out of range. Their attack sound now plays on CHAN_AUTO and has very low attenuation, making it much more easily locatable by sound.

[Somagu]

Great update, but...

ZM66 now has a true delayed-recoil salvo! Watch out for the ZM-wielding jackboots.

Great. Not as if the rifle jackboots and riflemen weren't already responsible for like 70% of my deaths to begin with.

[mumblemumble]

I kinda agree, jackboots are hitscan (almost) instakills, giving them a buff on accuracy is kinda mean....not that this is unexpected, but come on

Update is QUITE nice, its nice seeing I can carry an empty RL at a reasonable 125 blocks : I would argue with this change, perhaps the rocket launcher should have the exclussive spawn for the RL, as the blooper is now just a little redundant for it. I think its still a great SSG spawn, and option to have, especially given its light weight, just not for the rocket spawn

The chaingun, and libby changes are VERY nice, the libby now feels like a full on plasma replacement in all respects, as its easier to fire on the move, even full auto (though you cannot snipe at all this way). Though the shotgun recoil reduction feels odd. Now shotguns feel too easy, especially with semi auto, where I don't have to try to aim much because it has so little recoil. Short of the jam issue, and having 8 shots, shotgun feels a bit TOO easymode now for taking care of stuff. Recoil should be high enough that semi auto spray on the move shouldn't be incredibly effective at much range at all.

Odd thing with ssg (and hunter?) if reloading from the side saddle, it can actually increase the weight. Firing 1 shot of the ssg, reloading, boosts the weight by 3 blocks each time. Is this because the weight from the saddle is inverted or something?

Ammo crates still seem to always drop batteries if blown open, or the booby trap goes off.

Still wondering about why the liberator ejects casings straight forward... Shouldn't it be to the right slightly?

Anyways, great update, im loving the new weight mechanics, really frees up my options, and makes carrying extra equipment more viable.

The med station STILL provides unlimited healing for no risk. Just drop it, then pick it up when healed, getting all resources back. Infinite healing vae...

zm66s overheated on burst mode, and then dropped actually slow down in terms of fire rate. Also, I think this fire rate so rapidly might damage the gun a little potentially.

Blursphere replacement which isn't the tailisman is very weak..... Really, it doesn't cut the mustard for what the blursphere should do, just getting a potion. If anything, perhaps add a new item which causes player to inflict fear state in all monsters who see the plyer, freeze up / move slower in fear, and fire innacurately. perhaps with the quote "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." . This would be a suitable replacement, without having ghost marines spammed.

With how the chainsaw revs, the chain going forward on the top, and backward on the bottom, wouldn't chainsawing something PULL them in rather than PUSH them away.

Shotguns do not seem to account for filled / empty side saddles in weight

The sight of the ssg seems a little low, at close, and long range the shot goes higher than one would expect

Could we get a toggle crouch?....considering the nature of the mod, this would be very helpful

because HD_jumpdrop also counts mantling, and mantling is rather strange sometimes, enabling it often drops guns while mantling if you stutter a bit while doing it, because it mantles mid gun raise, thus dropping it.

debris spawned by 4.26 wall impact needs to be lowered quite a bit, a vulcanette on high will lag the game when shooting a wall from all the moving objects

Today I learned I could kill a ninja pirate with JUST a pistol.... I think this means they need a buff =) Seriously though, considering the crits being added, and everything else, a larger health pool at least would make sense. Its a bit too easy to kill them by just shooting away, with multiple shotgun blasts (hunter on semi still works) zm66 on auto, rockets, ect. And I think killing it with 8 pistol rounds is the proof its no longer as formidable.

dropping of partial UAC mags, and partial batteries doesn't happen with the "drop 1" command like 9mm and 7.62 does. Also, I think giving used mags an altered sprites, even just by giving the red part a different color would be a good idea, so I dont keep picking up partial mags looking for GOOD mags.

[Matt]

ZDoom already has a crouch toggle, look for it in the menu or bind something to "crouch" without the +. (I had no idea it existed until ~2 years ago when Lava Grunt pointed out that the crouch detection at the time didn't account for it. I still never use it.)

I've found the blursphere in vanilla to be very mixed and circumstantial. Against only hitscanners and pinkies it's pretty good, but against projectile monsters it's worse than useless since it screws with your ability to circlestrafe - it feels like a trap, I'm not only fighting the monsters but the little voice constantly insisting "here is an item it is GOOD you must PICK IT UP". So even a minor but unmitigated bonus replacing it would be an improvement in my view.

[mumblemumble]

Ohh, I never knew about that with toggling....sweet! now my left pinky wont be sore.


I don't know, yes they are circumstantial, but generally I never face the problem you face. They do block shots, and pull agro so its hardly an issue for me.

And even if a potion is good, it cannot give the sheer protection the talisman can. Maybe potions along side them, but not alone

Also, upon further thinking, batteries on shotgun boxes might be a bad idea : batteries are even more common then, and having a shotgun box replaced with a battery when a level gives a shotgun and shellbox is a bit of a pickle. And why is it shellboxes occasionally do not spawn? Shells are the least ammo efficient when compared to other ammo from vanilla to HD comparison. Clips give way more ammo, batteries last longer rockets hit harder, but shells really aren't more efficient at any point (in fact, for crowd control they are less efficient)

player can often get "the wiggles" when dead if killed when in the wiggle state.

[Silentdarkness12]

I think that it might be good to have a chance at blue potions to replace the blursphere.

[mumblemumble]

Except really, they don't do anywhere near as much. They provide a bit of a health boost, at a very slightly elevated rate, aggrivated damage removal, and nothing else. They won't protect you from being shot at a bunch, which is the role of the blur-sphere. Certainly not against a couple chain-gunners.

[Silentdarkness12]

The thing is, tough situations where you're getting shot at, are temporary. You learn to cope with the situation, and move on. Having aggravated damage cling to you permanently and cause you to die 50% easier, is a more serious problem imo.

[mumblemumble]

True, but this context you submit isn't all the time. And if you have no aggravated damage, the potion is little better than a stimpack in effects. I suppose adding a higher weight limit, slightly better move speed, and all that like a mega-sphere does would make it more of a viable option, along with more healing, maybe spiritual armor would make it a contender for the blurphere effect, but this would take some re-balancing

[Silentdarkness12]

For me, this context is accurate about 80% of the time.

[mumblemumble]

Well Giza invasionIs rather interesting with HD. plenty of good marines, and being seiged by lots of enemies by many flanks. If nothing else, displays how HD marines work, how bad they are with friendly fire, gives you a chance to try being a medic on single play, and just seeing how HD plays with seige gameplay. Not quite beatable alone (i think), since the marines aren't the brightest, but a neat idea regardless. Only wish marines didn't shoot me as much as the monsters do. That, and jackboots / evil marines were distinguishable from good marines. I kept gunning down grey marines thinking they were jackboots, then swear up and down because I just killed an ally. That and they should have the state to check if im infront of them before firing, too often I got shot, or blown up, and it was aggravating. They also seem to move a little slower, and inconsistent with players / zombies, and are much less aggressive than I would think.

A few things I've noticed with this : marines need MUCH higher aggression rates, they hardly ever shoot. Marines need a check to minimize FF by checking LOS. A pallete change in color would really help. Rocket launcher marines occasionally drop bloopers (unless they carry bloopers? But they still drop a rocket box) - Possibly have monsters agro on marines on sight, IF the aggression levels of marines are high enough. Its aggrivating to see them bumbling around and not shooting, and hesitating to shoot because they are blocking my shot, then an arachnotron blows us both up

EDIT : Ok, very technically beatable alone, outside homely, but much better suited for coop. Even so, it ramps up ok, and has areas that can be entrenched into a little bit, but the 2 cyber-demons at the very end MIGHT be a bit much, that said, still beatable if you prepare with a few heat rounds (which there are enough of)

partial batteries are smaller than they should be when dropped.

TB raises some questions. If the TB explodes because it ignites the point in an explosion, why does stuff next to the beam explode, and why is there recoil at all? I mean, its a damn laser, lasers have no recoil...so this is confusing.

Just want to say, the vulcanette is PERFECT right now, powerful,accurate when braced, high capacity, and finally able to be fired from the hip with semi respectable accuracy (ok, so I still miss alot from the spread, but its a viable tactic to move while shooting) Also, running around with it in berserk mode feels awesome.

I'm noticing lots of batteries spawning from ammo crates, and always when the booby trap goes off. Is this intentional, to just mess with me after I said they were too common?

[Matt]

Looks interesting! Crazy week at work and I've got extended family coming over this weekend, though, so not too sure if I'll be able to give it a try soon.

Anyway, my real reason for posting in this thread is to share this one quote:

Normally we think of a balanced dish as being neither too salty nor undersalted. I think that’s wrong. When a dish is perfectly seasoned, it will taste simultaneously like it has too much salt and too little salt. It is fully committed to being both at the same time.

(And it turns out the ammo crate cells are a bug, couldn't tell a debug line from the text just wrapping around)

[mumblemumble]

hitting reload, fire, or other things on a gun causes a very brief delay, which in and of itself isn't bad, but hitting fire too fast say, after reloading, will "loop" the state, so mashing fire way to fast after reloading a liberator can actually keep it from firing entirely.

An idea based on your CVAR for jumpdrop - Can you make it so when a weapon is dropped OUTSIDE of jump-drop, impact from a fall, ect, that pistol is immediately drawn? This would make grabbing it when in the middle of reloading much easier, and would have minimal negative side effects.

Still curious why the liberator ejects brass straight out the front... at very least an explanation of how the ejection port does it would be nice.