GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

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Expand view Topic review: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Graf Zahl » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:15 am

Demolisher wrote:Vavoom?


AFAIK Vavoom has already ditched the software renderer, just like EDGE. It's hardly useful to have a polygon-based software renderer. It mixes all the disadvantages of software rendering in general with the incompatibilities of a polygon based renderer so you end up with the worst of both worlds.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Graf Zahl » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:13 am

NeuralStunner wrote:Meh, in GZDoom especially, I've noticed a distinct lack of color quality in 16-bit color mode (with lighting in particular).
And you will notice the same if done in software. 16 bit modes are rather useless, in particular if you want to do effects with the color channels because masking them out for subsequent passes may easily negate any speed boost you get from rendering less data.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Salad Viking » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:25 pm

Yeah... I'd advise people not to mention Quake when talking about porting hardware features to software. The Quake engine is totally different than Doom's. Quake is full-3D software; if you want to have that in Doom, you would have to make a completely new source port based on Quake, which would be quite a challenge. There's only so much you can do when taking code from different technologies.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by InsanityBringer » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:41 pm

Quake's software renderer was also much different than doom's.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Amuscaria » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:39 pm

Didn't Quake have Dynamic lights in software mode? O_o I'd imagine it would be possible?

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by NeuralStunner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:09 pm

Minigunner wrote:ZDoom doesn't use any texture filters that could easily expose the visual disadvantages of 16-bit over 32-bit.
Meh, in GZDoom especially, I've noticed a distinct lack of color quality in 16-bit color mode (with lighting in particular).

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Minigunner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:31 pm

I just looked at DelphiDoom, and its "dynlights" are just sprites, while the perspective correction blows.
Wait a minute. The light effects could fit well in software, if they aren't rendered as additive.
The perspective correction seems to just be the widening of the screen towards the bottom (like this: |`| -> /`\ ; it even occurs when looking down :| ). However, that tends to provide even more distortion than no "correction" at all. It should be narrowing of the screen towards the top when looking up ( |`| -> /\ ), and narrowing towards the bottom when looking down ( |`| -> \/ ).
As for 32-bit color, I think that ZDoom would be better off with 16-bit color, considering that ZDoom in itself consumes more resources than DelphiDoom (that is, if the fancy settings aren't enabled), and that ZDoom doesn't use any texture filters that could easily expose the visual disadvantages of 16-bit over 32-bit.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by phi108 » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:57 pm

esselfortium wrote:...the existing colormap-based lighting system would likely break the effect unless the dynamic lights could be somehow rendered as a series of circular, dynamically-split partial segs and subsectors with the appropriate light levels' colormaps.
I've often wondered if the ZDoom colormap light fading could ever be more dynamic, allowing the light to brighten in a circle as it got closer to a bright item, not dependent on the player position anymore. But this would only allow white lights the same as all light fading, unless it could somehow use ZDoom's colored sector lighting.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by esselfortium » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:36 pm

I was really intrigued by the fake perspective correction as seen in the DelphiDoom website's screenshots, but when I tried it out I found it to actually be rather nauseating in action. :?

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Gez » Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:20 pm

DelphiDoom is the most advanced software renderer as far as eye candy goes; it has 32-bit color depth, dynamic lights, and fake perspective correction.

I am a bit surprised nobody backported that code to a C/C++ Doom port; but I guess those people interested by these features just go for hardware rendering.

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Minigunner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:52 pm

Yeah, software dynlights would probably need quite a bit of work in order for it to look good in software. However, I screenshotted some dynamic lights and converted the images to the Doom palette, and they don't look half bad; basically, the light levels would have to be calculated in 16-bit in order to look almost the same. As for the possible r_visibility troubles, I guess the lights could also be affected by it.

All in all, it seems that the way I'm proposing may consume a shitload of CPU usage, so there would have to be a way around it, or they will just about be useless and not worth the effort. :cry:

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by esselfortium » Sat Dec 04, 2010 3:34 pm

I think the palette issues could be worked around in the same way that sector lighting and texture choices are made to look good in software, but I don't think any remotely 'easy' implementation of this would really work in software for another, unrelated reason: the existing colormap-based lighting system would likely break the effect unless the dynamic lights could be somehow rendered as a series of circular, dynamically-split partial segs and subsectors with the appropriate light levels' colormaps.

Because drawing them as bright overlays wouldn't really work out with the existing software lighting system, I don't think. Best case implementation that way they'd probably stick out like a sore thumb, especially when all the lighting around them brightens/darkens with distance fading and the dynamic lights don't.

tl;dr: hfgl

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by NeuralStunner » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:59 pm

Gez wrote:No love for FraggleScript?
I can't think of a single mod that uses it. :(

Re: GZDoom "Dynamic" Lights: Possible in Software?

by Gez » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:48 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:This and 3D floors are about all that defines a "GZDoom only" map/mod.
No love for FraggleScript? :P

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